Nightcrawler
New member
I've been hearing mumblings about this again from various sources. Are the Europeans really planning on forming a single nation anytime soon? What would be the pros and cons of this were to occur?
A United Europe?
- Thread starter Nightcrawler
- Start date
Europe will become united as a fascist bloc. Because Europeans lack religion they are able to unite only "against" and not "for". The out-group which Europe will unify against lies along the Southern and Eastern Mediterranean coasts. There has been talk of a unified Europe since Liebnitz, but the tribal pull is too strong. Only the survival instinct will be strong enough to overcome historical factors and the personal inertia of the common European. They have little history of labor mobility, upward social movement, and truely representative governance. Governments that would uselessly expend the lives of tens of millions in two brutal tribal wars can hardly be held to have acted with true just consent of the governed.
Even in England classical liberalism (modern conservatism) is becoming a dead letter.
Even in England classical liberalism (modern conservatism) is becoming a dead letter.
Since World War II most of the democracies of Western Europe have been moving steadily closer to becoming one political entity, if that's what you mean by "nation." They're not there yet, and won't be, if ever, for some time to come. But they do now have a common code of human rights, courts to enforce it, a legislature, and a somewhat useless executive. The neutrals like Sweden and mussi's Eidgenossenschaft, Switzerland, are not as interested. Germany and France have been the main proponents, along with the Benelux countries. Britain and Denmark are a little less interested. I don't think it really affects the United States all that much, unless they become a trading block with high tariff barriers.
check here for more details: http://www.eurunion.org
check here for more details: http://www.eurunion.org
paratrooper
New member
Europe is a collection of countries born from warring tribes . They basically don't like each other but tolerate each other for survival purposes . Look at Yugoslavia . Marshall Tito took over and basically said " You don't have to like each other but you must get along . Avoid each other if you must but don't fight . If you do I will have you all killed ." It worked . When they suddenly became "free" they started killing each other again with a renewed vengance . It was hard enough to get them to accept The Euro ( which is already a disaster on the monetary front ) accepting each other as equals is a pipe dream .
I have worked with Europeans here in the U.S. and their first question is do I still speak German . When I say I do they respect me for maintaining the language but there are old wounds that will never heal .
I will not say all of them are equal . They are all unique in their own way . They all seem to level off in the end . They , however , will overlook their own shortcomings and look down on the faults of others .
We just refer to that as Nationalism . We are all guilty . A common Europe ? When Pat Buchanan marries Rue Paul !
I have worked with Europeans here in the U.S. and their first question is do I still speak German . When I say I do they respect me for maintaining the language but there are old wounds that will never heal .
I will not say all of them are equal . They are all unique in their own way . They all seem to level off in the end . They , however , will overlook their own shortcomings and look down on the faults of others .
We just refer to that as Nationalism . We are all guilty . A common Europe ? When Pat Buchanan marries Rue Paul !
Mussi, did you hear about Ireland? When they wanted to join the EU the EU said that Ireland had to make the corporate and personal taxes at equal rates. What that meant is that Ireland had to RAISE the personal rate to the corporate rate. Grrr...So instead Ireland LOWERED the corporate rate to the personal rate! ha ha That put one over on the Eurocrats. Talk about tax and spend.
Well, Europe is not so bad, I lived in Norway and Germany as a teenager. But people who think Europe should be an example for the US are back-asswards. Anyways, Europe will not unite unless there is a common outside threat. Toleration is not the same thing as unification. So is there threat? Time will tell.
By the way, did you hear of NISAT? Norwegian Initiative on Small Arms Transfers. I would bet money that they have something to do with with the recent BATF ban on imports. I will start a thread on their URL...
Well, Europe is not so bad, I lived in Norway and Germany as a teenager. But people who think Europe should be an example for the US are back-asswards. Anyways, Europe will not unite unless there is a common outside threat. Toleration is not the same thing as unification. So is there threat? Time will tell.
By the way, did you hear of NISAT? Norwegian Initiative on Small Arms Transfers. I would bet money that they have something to do with with the recent BATF ban on imports. I will start a thread on their URL...
Juan Hunt Greer
New member
This may be a bit OT, but one thing which may put the kibosh on dropping boundaries may be mad cow disease, of all things. Just reported today in Spain and the Azores, and right now NOBODY wants anybody else's beef shipped across their border!!!
crankshaft
paranoia ain't nuttin' when You're worried about " mad cow"
crankshaft
paranoia ain't nuttin' when You're worried about " mad cow"
pittspilot
New member
Bring them on
Look, if the Euro's want to place their countries under an immense bureaucracy that they have no electoral power over, then I say go right ahead. Once again we will learn the lesson that a large command economy is no match for a large free-market economy.
The bad news is that it can and will bring on a recession if the European economy goes in the tank.
The Good news is that it seems that one Margaret Thatcher is making a comeback, and seems has a chance to be elected Prime Minister again. The Iron Lady was always one of my favorite world leaders. The reason for her comeback is that she vehemently opposses the EU, which Blair is fighting to make the great state of Britain a part of.
Look I know that the Brits have terrible Gun Control policies. but they tend to do things like this in history, and once they have been sufficiently irratated, then they make a comeback.
Look, if the Euro's want to place their countries under an immense bureaucracy that they have no electoral power over, then I say go right ahead. Once again we will learn the lesson that a large command economy is no match for a large free-market economy.
The bad news is that it can and will bring on a recession if the European economy goes in the tank.
The Good news is that it seems that one Margaret Thatcher is making a comeback, and seems has a chance to be elected Prime Minister again. The Iron Lady was always one of my favorite world leaders. The reason for her comeback is that she vehemently opposses the EU, which Blair is fighting to make the great state of Britain a part of.
Look I know that the Brits have terrible Gun Control policies. but they tend to do things like this in history, and once they have been sufficiently irratated, then they make a comeback.
Europe aint' quite united...
amongst themselves. They don't have a common army (just some 'rapid'
intervention troops with too little transportation capacity), they
don't have a common currency (the Euro has not been introduced
everywhere in the EU). They don't speak one language, lest they have
one culture. Norway and Switzerland aren't in the Union. Austria could
leave if they get pi**ed off enough by 'sanctions'.
At least attacks on gun rights are a bit less oppressive at the
moment, at least in places where one can still own guns in a sensible
way.
And, oh, Norway has relatively liberal gun laws. If Norway joined the
EU, this would probably be the first victim of oppression.
amongst themselves. They don't have a common army (just some 'rapid'
intervention troops with too little transportation capacity), they
don't have a common currency (the Euro has not been introduced
everywhere in the EU). They don't speak one language, lest they have
one culture. Norway and Switzerland aren't in the Union. Austria could
leave if they get pi**ed off enough by 'sanctions'.
At least attacks on gun rights are a bit less oppressive at the
moment, at least in places where one can still own guns in a sensible
way.
And, oh, Norway has relatively liberal gun laws. If Norway joined the
EU, this would probably be the first victim of oppression.