A thought:experiment

J

Joe Portale

New member
How does this sound. Let's for a short period of time, say five years, seperate the USA into two regions.

The first will be a Constiutional republic, sort of what we were supposed to have. Every abled body citizen over the age of 18 would be required to own and maintain a firearm. No permits, no licenses, no gun tracking of any kind. Enforced laws with teeth for criminal offenses. No country club prisons and home rule education system. Commerce would only be regulated with concerns to health and safety, enforced tariffs and national sales tax to fund the government. The government will be limited in size and scope. The military would be for home defense only and NEVER come under the control of a UN general.

And the second, could be the "Land of Liberalism". No guns, zip nadda, no armed (no guns remember...sorry Rosie), body guards, even a sling shot is considered a dangerous weapon. Let the liberal government suck up to the UN, follow the European model of socialism and citizenery dependant upon the state. A sliding scale tax structure, liberal judges that are required to see all criminals as victims of the system, pleasent prisons that allow the inmates pretty much do what ever they want. Allow themeselves be under the full control of the UN. "Hey we are just being like Europe!" And so on...

Then, this is the fun part...empty the prisons on both sides. Everybody gets a fresh start and a free pass to go to the America they want.

Everyone will be allowed one change of citizenship during the five years. The door will swing both ways. But you can only change once. After the five years, wouldn't it interesting to see who has the most "immigration".

just goofin' around.



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Joe Portale
Tucson, Arizona Territory

"Those who turn their swords into plow shears,
end up plowing the fields of those who didn't"
Thomas Jefferson
 
I've talked about ( for years! ) a similar idea--divide America into "those who want to be dependent on government" and "those who wish to live free..."
The problem is, the first group needs an unending supply of $$$, which is normally provided by the latter!

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"live free or die trying..."
 
Joe, it's a dream I've had often as well. Divide the country at the Mississippi, with the liberals gettting the East and us getting
the West (the best part, IMO). Not hard to imagine where the criminals will go to ply their trade or the lazy to get a handout. And imagine all the new gun shops and ranges!

Dick
 
johnR is right. It is not that they desire to live off eachother, they wish to live off the productive - letting the productive "get away" doesn't cut it.

Battler.
 
Actually, liberal areas are often "net tax losers" - they pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal money. More conservative areas are not-uncommonly "net tax winners," who recieve much more than they pay out.

The classic example is New York City, a pretty liberal town which pays about 10 billion dollars more annually to the Federal government than it recieves in federal money.

Where does that money go? Lots of it goes to heavily conservative states like Florida, North Carolina, Utah, Arizona - states that get more money from the Feds than their residents pay in Federal taxes.

A lot of conservatives from states like New Mexico would be pissed off if they had to pay for their own road construction, rather than liberals taxpayers from New York paying for it. :)

--Amp
 
Ampersand,

That would indeed be divinely ironic. COuld you point me to the source of these stats so I could enjoy the fine points of the joke myself?
 
The last time we tried dividing up the states
back in 1860,it was called succession and lead to the American civil war, called the war between the states.

This does not really apply because you guys are talking about a hypothetical experiment;
however, if you were to actually try to implement your hypothetical experiment;
in that case,it would apply directly.

Therefore,your experiment can never be implimented and remains a non reality.

Meerly wishfull thinking.

I comment upon the observance that the United States is getting divided up into
regions where gun owners and conservatives
predominate and regions where liberal anti
gun socialist elitests predominate and make things extreemly tough for gun owners residing in liberal socialist anti gun states.


I have given some though to moving to a pro-gun state.
However, I own land which I would need to sell first which presents quite a difficulty, especially since my land provides
me my income.

Freedom is not free, it is paid for in the blood of hereos and patriots.And failed
patriots are called terrorists, felons,criminals and traitors.Apparent milita (I would say organized, but they really are not organized because if they were ,we would not know of their existance).

Apparant militias are infultrated by FBI
agents and would be the first to be "WACCOED".
Those unwilling or unable to pay the patriot's price for freedom in blood must resign themselves to writing letters to
unresponsive liberal socialist politicians
and telling others about the dangers of the democrat's NWO socialism.

and the republican party is full of defacto
democrat socialists who went to the republican party and registered as republicans.
This gives us the ONE PARTY SYSTEM , The socialist party A-democrats and the socialist party B-republicans.

With this in mind, in Nov elections I am voting for Bush as president and all the rest of the ticket for Libritarians.

This type of split ticket voting, if enough
of it occurs, would result in Bush being elected president and when Bush tries to enact some reasonable republican gun control lite, the gun control lite would be blocked by the pro-gun libertarians in congress.

It is a major shame that republicans no longer support and try to disavow the pro-gun plank in the republican platform.

This is because, since 1960, the public schools have been teaching students a liberal education; that is to say: educating them to be liberal socialists.

It is this socialist mind bending or warping,
occuring in our public schools,that gives socialist party A, the democrats, their
contol of their manufactured sheeple.

Republicans ,if they wish to be elected, feel that they need to abondon their conserative principles and become socialist party B in order to appeal to the socialism indoctronated sheeple.

After public education concludes, the socialist mind warp is enforced through the
liberal socialist biased tv media, so that the sheeple are never free to think for themselves and never exposed to the opposing point of view and ways of thought.

These are my ideas to explain why we find ourselves in the sorry state that we are now in.

Our innocent, unsuspecting and trustfull of
big brother government,
fellow Americans have allowed themseves to
be indoctornated in socialism and are unable to break free of their programing.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ampersand:
Actually, liberal areas are often "net tax losers" - they pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal money. More conservative areas are not-uncommonly "net tax winners," who recieve much more than they pay out.

The classic example is New York City, a pretty liberal town which pays about 10 billion dollars more annually to the Federal government than it recieves in federal money.

Where does that money go? Lots of it goes to heavily conservative states like Florida, North Carolina, Utah, Arizona - states that get more money from the Feds than their residents pay in Federal taxes.

A lot of conservatives from states like New Mexico would be pissed off if they had to pay for their own road construction, rather than liberals taxpayers from New York paying for it. :)

--Amp[/quote]


Hmmm... i wonder who is paying the lions share of this "$10B" deficit?



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~USP

"... I rejoice that America has resisted [The Stamp Act]. Three millions of people, so dead to all feelings of liberty as to voluntarily submit to being slaves, would have been fit instruments to make slaves of the rest of us." -- William Pitt, British Parliament, December 1765
 
Oleg, what a nice way to put it! You'll find a state-by-state listing of who runs a deficit and who runs a surplus in Federal moneys at ksgwww.harvard.edu/fisc97/rep2.htm ; this is an annual report called The Federal Budget and the States, released annually by the Harvard school of government. (My link is to the 1997 edition; I don't know if more recent editions are available online). In particular, take a look at ksgwww.harvard.edu/fisc97/figures/fig9.htm and ksgwww.harvard.edu/fisc97/figures/tab2.htm .

I read about it in an article in The New Yorker, April 19 1999, pages 94-100, which is where I found the stat about New York City's balance of payments.

USP, I would bet that more per capita taxes are paid by Woody Allen than anyone else. (Not just Woody, of course; but I've neen told that the Upper West Side of Manhattan, where he lives, is the most tax-expensive place to live in the USA). The "lions share," however, is probably paid by the middle class living throughout NYC, since there are so many more of them. I'm just guessing, though. What's your point?

--Amp

[This message has been edited by Ampersand (edited June 12, 2000).]
 
Man oh man. Can you imagine the shift in property values as one side's population moves to the other (which ever way it is)?

Supply and demand is often a cruel thang.

Rick
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ampersand:
The "lions share," however, is probably paid by the middle class living throughout NYC, since there are so many more of them. I'm just guessing, though. What's your point?

--Amp[/quote]

State taxes, perhaps. Federal Taxes, i doubt it.




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~USP

"... I rejoice that America has resisted [The Stamp Act]. Three millions of people, so dead to all feelings of liberty as to voluntarily submit to being slaves, would have been fit instruments to make slaves of the rest of us." -- William Pitt, British Parliament, December 1765
 
Okay, here's another thought. Maybe we could do what George Carlin suggested once. Take all the criminals and drop them on an island. The island would have an inpenetrable fence running through the middle of the island. Put half of the criminals on each side respectively. No food, no water. After about thirty days on one side of the island, drop food and supplies. On the other drop all kinds of guns and ammo. Then open the gate.
Just a thought...

------------------
Joe Portale
Tucson, Arizona Territory

"Those who turn their swords into plow shears,
end up plowing the fields of those who didn't"
Thomas Jefferson
 
So much for the right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment... ;)

USP, even if it's true that wealthy Manhattan liberals like Woody Allen pay the lion's share of NYC's federal taxes, I don't think that changes my point in any way. Most of the rich people in NY are liberals, or at least democrats, in my (admittedly anecdotal) experience.

Interesting trivia point: the Boston Tea Party was a protest against taxes being too low.

--Amp
 
Ampersand-

If I pay 50% of my income in taxes and my neighbor only pays 20%, I am upset because my taxes are too high- not because his are too low. You're Boston Tea Party comment is obviously meant to stir up the uneducated. The colonists were upset because *they* were being taxed and a large tea company was getting an exemption. (Yes, I know, it was the exemption- or "lower tax"- that ticked them off.) It served to remind them about the fact that they were being taxed without representation.

If you are correct, then the colonists would have fought and died to secure the right for *everyone* to be taxed!

Uh...wait a minute...never mind. :-) Hehe

You will rarely defeat the combined wisdom of TFLers!
 
How about the load all the Liberals into California and detonate some nukes in the faultline?

We split CA off the mainland and send those libs off toward Alaska.
 
Hold on there fight4yourrights
Remember a lot of us folks here in the PRK are not liberals.
Besides if I'm going to Alaska again, Ill fly thank you. :)
Hate slow boats, reminds me of troopships. ;)

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."
 
Californie's an awfully pretty (and resource-rich) state to be wasting on a bunch of liberals. How about if we kick any liberals OUT of California and keep it for ourselves? :)
 
What if we send off all the liberals over to Canada, England, and Austarlia? :)

I would love to see what those liberals do about the climbing crime rate.
 
Very true, Cindy. California is much too beautiful to lose. How did all those Jerry Browns manage to take it over anyway?

Dick
 
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