A serious question for Union members.

RH

New member
Will someone please explain to me, in simple terms, why the Democrats are seen as the 'friend' of unions, and a shoe in for their votes, while the GOP is seen as an 'enemy' of unions ?

I've always grown up with that assumption, but it recently ocurred to me I don't have any basis for that feeling.

For the record, I'm a non-union member, strongly supporting GWB. I'm not trying to bait anyone here, I just want to know where this rhetoric has it's roots.
 
Don't know if this will help however I have
been a union member for years,board member
(of the union) steward. The union leadership
always pushed its people to vote Dem. the
thinking was that the Dem. party was for the
working guy.I believe this was once true,
years ago when miners in west va and other
states were fighting for there rights it was
Dem. leaders who helped. However (I) feel the
party has moved so far to the left the idea
they are somehow for the working "joe" is gone, but for the union workers this idea
is hard to give up.
A lot of what we see now in our country is
class separation,rich, poor,old, young, etc.
It works and makes money for a lot of people
in power.
I think a lot of union members will vote for
Bush as I will but many will not say so due
to the leadership being so anti-republican.
 
Forgive my ignorance, I thought it had to do with "right to work" laws.

States that have strong RTW laws tend to be strong republican states. I've heard many a Republican candidate speak of "Allowing people the right to work." Which ment they didn't have to be union.

Several states that allow "closed shops" are run by democrats. The democrates support the idea of the "LABOR vs BIG BUSINESS" Just look at how they rail against GWB on business issues. And look at how much money they get from Unions. AFL-CIO/AFT/NEA/etc.

Eric
Funny Odd line. My mom works for the Department of Economic Security in Arizona. AZ is a RTW work state. You can NOT be required to join a union to get a job...Unless that job is with the state.
So, my mom pays union fee's out of every paycheck. And to top it off... It is illegal for state employee's to strike in AZ. So you get the worse of both worlds. Fee's paid but no bargaining power.
-----
This isn't to imply that RTW states don't have unions. Nor is it to imply the benifit or cost of unions. I've worked in both union shops (as "managment") and is open shops.
 
The unions were really needed in the 30s and before. The old time Democrats were the only ones to back them and they rightfully deserved the workers' support.

That's all changed now. Who rammed NAFTA through? Good ole Billy promised the world to all the Congressmen and Senators and literally bought it's passage with your tax dollars.

A lot of current union members have their mindsets stuck in the Old Days, if not somewhere else.
 
I have a slightly different twist to it.
I'm in a union. Can't say I'm a strong supporter of it though, I have to be in it to do the job I'm doing and enjoying. I do enjoy certain union benefits such as job security and the fact that I would have to try pretty hard to be fired.
Here's the twist. I'm also in the defense industry and depend on the pentagon to buy more stuff.
As far as this election goes, I haven't seen one VOTE DEMOCRAT flyer or bumpersticker from my union like I did the last two elections.
 
I come from a union family. Both parents were union members as well as a few aunts and uncles. I belonged to the Teamsters Union and Retail Clerks Union at one time.

The right to work was always considered the right to scab, a way to break the solidarity that made a lot of the gains unions made possible.

The problem with most unions (besides some corruption) is that the people who work at the headquarters are way out liberals like Hillary Clinton types who are using the union base and money to promote a left wing agenda. Instead of concentrating on important things like wage increases and work place safety, they have got the union promoting all kinds of left wing things. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if some union money was going to HCI, even though most rank and file would strongly disagree.

The reason members go along with this is because the most effective tool they have is to stay together and form a solid front - solidarity.

However, individual members are getting smarter and realize that you don't have to go along with everything that comes down the union propaganda pike. Especially things that have nothing to do with what the core of the union is about.

I wouldn't expect a lot of union members to publically sound off when they disagree with the union leadership (this is seen as being a traitor). However, in the privacy of the voting booth, people will vote how they really feel.

I think Bush would help himself if he came out and said that nothing bad is going to happen to the unions if he is elected.

Right now the unions are saying that gore won't take away their guns, but Bush will take away their union.
 
Thanks ! Good responses all.

As a followup, do you union members feel you are better off or worse off for being in the union ?

Before you answer, weigh the need for "job security" and collective bargaining in the period of lowest unemployment ever vs. what it costs you (dues) to be in the union, and what it costs you if you strike.

In this economy, where people are generally making a fair wage, in a clean environment, with a limited work week, and all kinds of federal labor protections, where thousands of jobs go unfilled because of high demand - do you really need the union ? Would you be able to get a better wage in a free market, relying on your skills & experience instead of the union's bargaining power ? (Remember to offset your current salary with what you pay out in dues.)
 
Rh;
Just to add to my previous post, I have been
on both sides management/union, I believe
unions do service a purpose, a balance so
to speak.Some years ago our government decided they could receive more money by
cutting the unions out as in what you said
"federal labor protections" this is a union
but only for some and not on a local level.
We are now living in a service/paperwork
society and I believe the unions worked best
when a product was being produced.
Was I better off with a union yes, no question.Does it work for all no.
In some ways the NRA is union, so I hope
all join and support.
 
The company I work for has facilities across the USA and foreign countries also. If I were to relocate to a right to work state and do the same exact job for the same exact company, I would only be paid about 60 to 75% of what I make now. My union dues only take about 3%, so yes I do believe unions can help tremendously as far as wages are concerned. The trick is to keep your company from moving your job to a right to work state, or a third world country for that matter.
The problem I have with my particular union is that the union also protects people who really need a union for protection, people who can't or won't do their fair share of the work and don't even try to enhance their work skills; hence the company's desire to seek cheaper labor elsewhere. The ol' catch 22.
I am a little worried about labor laws though. Does anybody have any input about Bush's record on fair labor laws?
 
Meiji,
that's a loooong article. Could you cut & paste the section that is relevant to Bush ?

Cheapshot - my point exactly ! In a free market, where slackers couldn't hide behind a union, and management wouldn't have to pay the slacker the same he pays you, wouldn't your individual perfromance and skills make you a standout among the slackers ?

What bugs me about the unions is that they are run by fat cats who get wined & dined by the power brokers, and get paid more than 3 times the average worker they supposedly represent. And for that lavish lifestyle they get you a 10% raise every 3 years ? Big deal.
 
Ok, the highlights

Fortunately, they have the support of the U.S. Supreme Court. In the 1988 case Beck v. Communications
Workers, a decision written by its most liberal member, William Brennan, the Court said it violates the First
Amendment to force employees, over their objections, to pay union dues that are used to support political
candidates or causes. President Bush’s only attempt to enforce Beck came in 1992, when he issued an executive
order requiring federal contractors to inform their employees of their Beck rights. That order was soon rescinded
by President Clinton. Since 1993, the Clinton administration, Democratic members of Congress, federal judges,
and NLRB members appointed by Clinton have been engaged in a vast ruling class conspiracy with union leaders
to keep employees covered by union contracts ignorant of their First Amendment rights under Beck, making it as
difficult as possible for them to object and recover the political contribution portion of their dues.



Beck is the labor movement’s unacknowledged Achilles heel. If the rights of employees recognized by the
Supreme Court in that decision are ever enforced, it will doom John Sweeney’s strategy of organizing the working
poor along with more public employees in an attempt to reintroduce class warfare into American life through
political campaign contributions. Beck doesn’t just make it illegal to take union dues from employees over their
objections and use them for political contributions. It says you can’t use their dues for anything other than what
directly benefits them: collective bargaining, contract administration, and processing grievances. What that means,
in plain English, is that when an employee objects you can’t legally spend his union dues for political campaigns or
for organizing other workers. The NLRB, labor’s lapdog, predictably disagrees, but its recent decision to that
effect will be reversed on appeal.

In Beck the Court found that fully 79 percent of union
dues were spent on activities that did not directly benefit the dues-paying workers. In Washington state, where
voters passed a Paycheck Protection Initiative in 1992, 85 percent of the state’s teachers declined to have their
dues spent on political contributions. Imagine what would happen to New Labor if it lost two-thirds of its revenue.
No one in Congress would ever return John Sweeney’s phone calls.

Most employees in unionized workplaces are unaware of their rights under Beck. A 1996 survey of 1,000 union
members by Americans for a Balanced Budget revealed that 78 percent did not know they had a right to obtain a
refund for that portion of their dues spent on political contributions. You can be certain that figure would approach
100 percent if they were asked about their right to refunds for dues spent on organizing.

Why aren’t companies doing more to educate their employees about Beck? Largely because it’s not in their
interest for unions to increase spending on contract administration or grievance processing, expenditures approved
by Beck. That would cause problems, possibly reduce productivity. Plus, any company that tried to inform its own
employees of their Beck rights would face union reprisals.




------------------
"Take your weapon with reluctance. Draw it with dread. Grieve for those who fall to your bullets. But make every shot count."-Robert Shea
 
That is too cool, Meiji Man! I'm gonna have to inform some of my cohorts in the UAW about this, BTW-BUSH/CHENEY IN 2000! :D
OldGLOCKY

------------------
"I have not yet begun to
fight!"-John Paul Jones
 
Well, I am A union Member, and I am Voting republican this year...I figure I can always get another Job, but if I lose a lot of my Constitutional rights, they are gone forever.

I think being in the Union has definately made my Quality of life better..I work for a large utility and when we had layoffs, the Union Made the Company go by Seniority..which is good when you got 20 years of your life invested in a company, they can't just drop you like a hot potato because the younger workes kiss ass ...also..the utility I work for has 75 thats right...75 vice Presidents...and as many uneeded other executives..so I don't even want to get started about fat Cats at the Union..we have 1 pres and 1 vice pres..for the same copmpany...believe me ..this company would pay minimum wage if they could get by with it...don't get me started...

------------------
SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM
 
The honorable aims of the Unions of our forefathers have been led astray by the greed of the current union leaders. The workers right movements have been taken by the Democrats and perverted into thier own "Progressive" agenda. A workers union by it's nature; "Do what is best for the workers" has little in common with thier allies Greenpeace or the Sierra Club; "Screw people for the little fuzzy animals", or the Gun-control "Disarm the WORKERS". I'm not a member of a Union. I never will be. This does not mean I haven't used my collective barganing rights with other workers to achieve our goals. It means I will not encourage another Bureaucracy to take my money and use it for other means.
Look to your Shop Stewards and Union leaders, Is there a wrench in his hands? Are his nails dirty? If he's wearing a tie, he's management, and is just another fat cat living off your sweat.

Gotto go, a black Caddy full of Teamsters just pulled up.




------------------
"Take your weapon with reluctance. Draw it with dread. Grieve for those who fall to your bullets. But make every shot count."-Robert Shea
 
RH:
I do hate the fact that my union dues go to the fat-cat dems and are even used for the advancement of the liberal/criminal agenda, but the fact remains, I do have some protection.
Over the years I've learned that sometimes, no matter how well you perform your job, there will be someone in management who just don't like you and take action to get rid of you, or maybe he does like you but HIS boss has a son who wants your job. With the union protection, that is much less likely to happen. It's a lot faster/easier to arbitrate while still employed than it is to be terminated, then file a wrongful discharge complaint with the EEOC. That takes years.
I don't really feel that I need a union to survive, but after twenty years of work, I definately don't want to start all over.
On the other hand, if need be I can find another job, but civil rights are getting a little hard to come by, so I'm gonna...VOTE BUSH!!! :D
 
OK, I'm understanding some of the union member's points as to why they belong. Cheapshot's point about losing your job due to internal politics, though, is one that cuts across union/non-union lines. There are millions of non-union workers who lose their jobs over office politics. I know several. That's life. I've long thought about the idea of unionizing photographers, but balked at the idea because the hourly rate would be determined by the "middle of the road" grade photographer. Thus, those who are below par would make more than they should, and those who excel would make less. Feel free to correct me if my assumptions are not right.

Dick
Want to send a message to Bush? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
Well, ya gotta realize that there are some jobs that just won't work in a Union..A photographer for example...thats a very individualistic type of job and you want to be independent there...my job...I am a Machinery mechanic...and I am also the Cheif Shop Steward for my Location..and yes I get my hands Dirty and do as much or more work than my Co-workers, for the Same pay...you need to realize that I work in a trade where there are 200 other guys that went through the exact same training as I did and can do the same job as I can...you have to have that when you are working on equipment that needs to run 24/7-365 days a year to produce Electricity.
The Union that I belong to(at least on a local level) only wants it's workers treated fairly, which means every single worker, not just the ones that kiss up to the bosses and the union is constantly on the lookout for safety problems....let me give you an example: when the Federal D.O.T regulations went into effect, you could only drive a truck for 10 hours and then you had to stop and rest for 8 hours before driving again...the simple remedy for this was 2 men to a truck and they switched off...that was'nt good enough for our company who paid lobbyist millions to lobby the Va. legislature to allow them to have a Waiver anytime there is an emergency(and when one customers lights go out it's called an emergency)now they can drive the trucks unlimited..so now they can send the men out alone and who cares about how long they drive ....there arte more example but this is getting longwinded..just remember...99.9% of your Union Members are just guys like me out there trying to make a decent living to support his family..and 99.0% are also gun owners..there again the Liberal Media has led the world astray..

------------------
SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE ONLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO KILL THEM
 
I'd prefer to ask Jimmy Hoffa where he stands on the Union issues now.

Unfortunately, the Unions were long ago corrupted, and controlled by bigger contributors than all the so-called members were chipping in collectively.
And for the sake of image, certain concession had to be made from time to time, to keep up the illusion than this was for the little guy's good.
A dog and pony show, that's all.

Anybody here trust a Democrat with your Freedom?
And the Unions leadership touts what, you say? Voting for the Democrats, that's right.

This is Democrats...
This is your Freedom under Democrats...
Any Questions?
 
The unions were infiltrated by the communists
in the 30s, their objective is to maintain class warfare, and spread socialist propaganda amongst the membership.

Most union members are not up to speed on
the most important issues of the day.

Waterdog
 
Back
Top