A Scandium-pulled Silvertip

C

Chris W

New member
In the course of trying various kinds of .38+p and .357 ammo, my 340PD went and pulled a bullet. Honestly, I wasn't expecting to have this problem, since I had gone through maybe a dozen different types without problems, and it was pretty high-end stuff I was using when it happend--the 145 gr. .357 Silvertips. Their advertized velocity is 1290 fps from a 4" vented barrel, so they're not the hottest thing on the planet, or anything. I loaded a cylinder full and fired two without any problems (well, if you don't count a rather ferocious blast and, uh, lively recoil). Went to fire the third and NOTHING happens; trigger won't pull, cylinder is totally locked up, and when I look on the right side, the bullet's sticking maybe 1/8" out of the cylinder. Had to tap it back in just to be able to open the gun.

So, no Silvertips, apparently. But, what I want to know is, should I tell Winchester about it? I mean, here I've got a virtually full box of premium ammo that appears unusable in the gun it was intended for. Will they care, or am I going to get told I shouldn't have been such a fool as to shoot it in this gun? Whatd'ya think? Thanks.

cw
 
It may only effect that cartridge, or the production lot number that it is from. An e-mail to Winchester would be a nice thing to do. That way, if anyone else should contact them, they could see a trend that might be a concern.
 
The little lightweight snubbies act just like an inertial bullet puller with their zesty recoil. I've had better luck with 158 grain softpoint maggies in my scandium 357.

Pays to check as it pulled some brands but Federal stayed rock steady despite the spirited kick.
 
VL--I will email Winchester, and ask them if they've heard of any similar trend.

BG--I'll try the Federal, and keep my eyes on others as I continue to experiment. I love taking this gun to the range, shooting a box of standard pressure 125gr.s through it, and then bumping up for a few cylinders of hand-numbing excitement with .357s; guess i'll just have to keep on doing it ;)

cw
 
I'm having the same problem with a 340PD. Here is a range report I made on several .357 rounds. I'm shooting these with grips that added 1.5 ounces, and which cover the backstrap:

-- Federal C357B 125gr Hi-Shok: Started off with this full-power round. Stout recoil but straight back, so follow up shots were fairly quick and accurate. Smacks the hand sharply. No fun, but tolerable. #5 bullet pulled only .003".

-- Rem GS357MA 125gr Golden Saber: Moderate recoil. Easy to manage. Easy on the hand. But #5 bullet pulled .045" so stopped shooting. (I've heard that Remington might be working on this.)

-- ProLoad 125gr Tactical Lite: Low recoil. Easy to shoot and control. But #5 bullet pulled .026", so stopped shooting.

-- Win X357SHP 145gr STHP: Moderate recoil. Most accurate load. Easy to control. But bullet #5 pulled .044" so stopped shooting.

Right now I want to carry the Federal C357B, but I still need to try the Triton 125 reduced velocity round, #TR357HVB. adk
 
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Great. Somebody has taken the revolver in a whole new modern direction.

They've made one as finicky as a slidegun :barf:.

This is just stupid. Not y'all, but the gun itself. Get a steel gun, a good holster, be done with it.
 
Gee, Jim, don't hold back; tell us how you really feel! ;)

adk: great post. I'm glad there's someone who's being really systematic about this business. I've shot all the same loads except the Federal (started out with the gentler ones; but now I've gone up to fuller power .357s and find it less scary than I thought though still, as you know, not really 'fun'). I liked the Proload and the Golden Saber pretty well, and found both reasonably controllable (the Proload moreso). I just eyeballed a few rounds to check for pulling problems and didn't see anything alarming, so I kept shooting.

Surely this kind of thing can't be purely an invention of the .357 Scandium, can it? People have been shooting big-recoiling revolvers for a while, after all; and even if they've been a good deal heavier than 12 oz., a .565 super-grizzly-horse-shootin' pistol surely nudges the bullets out a bit, doesn't it? I dunno, but I'm inclined not to worry about the kind of movement I found on the Proload, which seems like a good round for the nonce.

cw

PS--adk, I'd like to try the Triton, too; do you know anywhere to get it online? I can't find it in my neck of the woods.
 
I've fired over 100 of the Proload tactical lites and never had a cylinder lockup. Didn't measure the "pull", so some pull might be occurring. However, if so, it has never affected my cylinder action. I'd recommend firing the entire cyclinder though, and not recycle the #5 cartridge to another range day.
 
Betcha it's more than just "a lot of recoil", it's the short stroke and sudden onset of the recoil. I mean, come on, the gun weighs less than 13oz, it's gonna accellerate FAST.

That's what will turn it into a bullet puller. A 454 might have more overall felt recoil, but the amount of gun movement in the first instants will be less...unless S&W goes totally psycho and starts doing large frame bigbore Scandiums :rolleyes:.

Does a 357 snub scandium tend to yank the 158grain 38+P lead loads?
 
Jim, that sounds very plausible; I don't have experience shooting anything bigger than a 'real' .357 (a 686+) with which to compare, but the lack of 'inertial damping' on such a light gun seems likely to aggrevate the problem.

I haven't shot any lead loads through mine, since I had heard that this problem COULD arise, and that jacketed bullets were less likely to introduce it. Anyone else tried the classic +P load?

cw
 
I believe the full-power Fed 125 Hi-Shok C357B is a highly effective .357 load. Marshall got 1238 fps with it from a 640.

The very first time I shot it in the 340 I did about as well as I do with the 158gr+P .38 (Win X38SPD) in my 442: five reasonably quick shots on a half-sheet of paper at 15 feet. Not great, but probably a LOT more effective with the .357.

I shot the X38SPD in the 340 and if I remember right, bullet #5 pulled only .010". (It definitely was just a small tolerable amount.) I have not found the Triton on-line yet.

For sure there are problems to be worked out. As mentioned, I changed the grips to cover the backstrap. As for the ammo, the problems will likely be solved soon enough. You end up with a pocket gun about the same size as a 442, that weighs only 15 ounces Loaded with powerful .357 rounds, that you learn to shoot. That's what I'm aiming for, anyway.
 

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adk--they've got to make these grips. I took your former posts (and VictorLouis' example) to heart this morning. Took a hacksaw to the Uncle Mike's Combat grips and cut 'em down. I actually prefer the two finger, pinky underneath, grip on this gun, and I'm willing to accept the tiny amount of added bulk in my pocket to have the strap covered; I repent of my former machismo. So if I had the electronic camera (gotta get one...), I could match your picture almost perfectly (mine's a Hi-viz). Thanks for the solid info and inspiration!

cw
 
You bet. These are serious guns.

Wiley Clapp shows a beautiful 340PD and has an article on them in the new Oct Guns and Ammo. He says: "Nobody is ever likely to consider a scandium revolver pleasant to shoot with full-power ammo. They're damned unpleasant to manage. But they're intended for use in the most unpleasant of situations. They're S&W's survival specials, metallurgical marvels for the 21st century."

Great stuff. I hope the guns work out, but you never know. If these don't, I'll just buy the next model.
 
Triton's Online

Chris W,

Natchez Shooters Supply ([url]www.natchezss.com)[/URL] sells Triton. However, I just checked, and they're out of stock on .357 magnum and .38 Special. It would be worth checking back in a week or so.

Ken
 
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