A question for the lawyers, with some PR skills as re: Pittman-Robertson and Heller

JimDandy

New member
Someone pointed out a doomed to fail House bill and one of the first things that came to mind was that even if it DID pass it would be struck down for taxing a right. As most of us who went through Hunter Education know, however, they already tax a right. Pittman Robertson passed in 1937, long long before Heller defined the RKBA as an individual right.

As I also mentioned there, I believe that would be something of an image nightmare to challenge in court. Who wants to come out against the environment, and it would take some skilled speech writing to keep the story about legal integrity, not "making guns cheaper". And for now, I think it's a better talking point for us, as gun owners to have voluntarily NOT challenged it. At this point we can talk about how much money gun owners have put into the environment, and how reasonable we are in NOT challenging it, even though we'd likely win. A sort of "We aren't like those anti-gun people. When we go after something, it's something big." type of point we can make.

Of course, now I'm wondering what the Pros from Dover think.

Would the Heller decision make challenging the excise tax on firearms in Pittman-Robertson a slam dunk?

Would that have been an historical treatment of the right that would make it easier for swing votes to swing the other way?
 
Would the Heller decision make challenging the excise tax on firearms in Pittman-Robertson a slam dunk?
If we won on those exact grounds, then the constitutionality of the NFA would also be cast into doubt.

However, many gun owners don't mind Pittman-Robertson. Those funds are allotted to preserving hunting grounds. Furthermore, it could be interpreted as a tax on commerce rather than the exercise of a right.
 
Tom, I would daresay that most gun owners are blissfully unaware of Pittman-Robertson and have no idea that their purchase price has been artificially raised by 11%. Same way most of us have no idea of the amount of excise taxes we pay on alcohol, tobacco, tires, fuel and, yes, even playing cards.
 
I don't mind it either. I think both the increased hunting lands, AND the PR windfall it would/could earn us is more than worth it. I was just wondering.



In Breedlove v. Suttles, 302 U.S. 277 (1937), (Same Year as Pittman Robertson Act) The Supreme Court upheld State level poll taxes.
These taxes were, by the way, applied to generally everyone, then certain exemptions were allowed. Non-voting women, the blind, and those under 21, or over 60.

With just a little research, I believe but don't know for sure, the voting age at this time was actually 21. So those under 21 not charged a poll tax could not vote. And the over 60 was held in the decision as congruent with those exempted from military service and jury duty.

This case was reversed in Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, 383 U.S. 663 (1966),

Which held, among other things:
(b) Fee payments or wealth, like race, creed, or color, are unrelated to the citizen's ability to participate intelligently in the electoral process. Pp. 383 U. S. 666-668.

(e) Classifications which might impinge on fundamental rights and liberties -- such as the franchise -- must be closely scrutinized. P. 383 U. S. 670.

Fee payments or wealth, like race, creed, and color are unrelated to a citizen's ability to intelligently participate in the fundamental right to self defense.

In Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Comm'r - 460 U.S. 575 (1983) The court held

(b) But by creating the special use tax, which is without parallel in the State's tax scheme, Minnesota has singled out the press for special treatment. When a State so singles out the press, the political constraints that prevent a legislature from imposing crippling taxes of general applicability are weakened, and the threat of burdensome taxes becomes acute. That threat can operate as effectively as a censor to check critical comment by the press, thus undercutting the basic assumption of our political system that the press will often serve as an important restraint on government. Moreover, differential treatment, unless justified by some special characteristic of the press, suggests that the goal of the regulation is not unrelated to suppression of expression, and such goal is presumptively unconstitutional. Differential treatment of the press, then, places such a burden on the interests protected by the First Amendment that such treatment cannot be countenanced unless the State asserts a counterbalancing interest of compelling importance that it cannot achieve without differential taxation. Pp. 460 U. S. 581-585.

Leaving the impression that ax extra tax on the Press is unconstitutional, and a special exemption to a tax on the press is also unconstitutional given the effects such treatment would have on a free press.

Applied to the second amendment, one could extrapolate a special tax on arms, and an exemption from a general tax on commerce would be unconstitutional given the same conflict-of-interest or intimidatory type of effect on the People.

As additional food for thought, we have:
To recognize a power in the State not only to single out the press, but also to tailor the tax so that it singles out a few members of the press, presents such a potential for abuse that no interest suggested by Minnesota can justify the scheme. Pp. 460 U. S. 591-592.

Can they single out owners of new arms, over used? Modern designs over curios and relics? Does the fact that it singles out people who want arms over those who don't have a potential for abuse that no interest suggested by the State can justify the scheme?

In Murdock v. Pennsylvania - 319 U.S. 105 (1943)

We have
2. The mere fact that the religious literature is "sold", rather than "donated" does not transform the activities of the colporteur into a commercial enterprise. P. 319 U. S. 111.

4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.

5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.

6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.

The mere fact that arms are sold, rather than issued, does not transform the activity of keeping and bearing arms into commerce.

A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right, and through reverse incorporation, I would put to you that the Federal Government may not charge for the enjoyment of a right.

The excise tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of keeping, and bearing arms, and invariably tends to suppress their exercise as the economically challenged may not be able to pay the tax.

That the excise tax is non-discriminatory, as it applies to all purchases of new arms, the liberties guaranteed by the Second Amendment are in a preferred position.


As for the concept of Reverse incorporation: If a State may not do such a thing, and the 14th amendment has been used to prevent the States from doing things the Federal Government may not do, as incorporation, we have the theory of Reverse Incorporation, housed in the 5th Amendment, and explained in the case Bolling v. Sharpe - 347 U.S. 497 (1954)

The Fifth Amendment, which is applicable in the District of Columbia, does not contain an equal protection clause, as does the Fourteenth Amendment, which applies only to the states. But the concepts of equal protection and due process, both stemming from our American ideal of fairness, are not mutually exclusive. The "equal protection of the laws" is a more explicit safeguard of prohibited unfairness than "due process of law," and therefore we do not imply that the two are always interchangeable phrases. But, as this Court has recognized, discrimination may be so unjustifiable as to be violative of due process.

And further from this decision we have:
In view of our decision that the Constitution prohibits the states from maintaining racially segregated public schools, it would be unthinkable that the same Constitution would impose a lesser duty on the Federal Government.

ETA: As for casting doubt on the NFA, I would point to the language in the Heller decision regarding dangerous and unusual weapons that was an obvious attempt to maintain the class of firearms we may generally purchase as "arms" and those restricted by the NFA as not "arms" but instead dangerousn and unusual.
 
As I noted, in the other thread, the increased taxation would play havoc upon the Conservation efforts that led to the original excise tax.

The funds go to more than just preserving wildlife and conservation of hunting grounds. The funds are also a large part of the the safety instruction for hunting and for target range improvements. This is something that affects much more than the hunters themselves.

By increasing the excise taxes by such an amount, it would directly affect the ability of our poorer citizens to not only procure arms, but dramatically affect the ability of an even broader segment to shoot; practice, matches, or hunting. Prices at Firing ranges (most especially, those that are State funded) would go up dramatically, further alienating an even greater segment of the population.

Now add in the explicit exemption of taxation of the US Government, and you have just about evaporated the funding used for all of the programs of 16 USC § 669.

Legal theories aside, do you really think that the Congress would gut what has to be the most successful environmental program for the past 80 some odd years?
 
Yeah, I made this other thread to discuss the generalities of Heller + P-R, that are not necessarily related to the suggested Bill. Plus other less well known laws regarding arms that others my know, and I don't.

Most of us recognize P-R, even if unconstitutional would be a poor target for judicial challenge. That's a case we don't WANT to win, even if we COULD. But I think it's worthy of discussion, especially if the discussion branches into other areas or provides a new insight/aproach where we might want to challenge something , i.e. NFA, or FOID etc.
 
I've spent a lot of time pondering the circumstance that the 2A is uniquely tied to a material object.

For instance, no one considers that paying sales tax on a bull-horn, typewriter or internet connection is equivalent to taxing the fundamental right of free speech.

I suppose it rises from the wording of the amendment, in that it directly addresses "Arms", even though the real, fundamental purpose is preservation of self and the Republic. The other amendments mainly address the action itself, such as speech or practicing religion, while the second addresses the tools of the action.

Anyway, I'm not sure where to go with that thought, exactly, but I've spent some time on it.
 
I have as well. I came to the conclusion that a sales tax does not target arms. Some things may well be exempt, for example food, but that exemption is in the general interest of the populace. One could argue firearms should be exempt, for the same reason, however I don't think you can make a case that a food exemption proves that arms are unfairly targeted.

That becomes a different story when the tax is aimed primarily or entirely at arms. Pittman Robertson includes other sporting devices like bows, which would probably not meet the "Heller Test" for "arms". However, I believe a case can be made it is primarily targeting arms.

And again, I'm not suggesting we challenge, just using it as a contrasting comparison.

ETA: One could say an income tax targets everything we buy as well, but does not specifically target any given item. So sales tax, or Income Tax, none can be easily used to exert that influence the SCOTUS was reticent of in Minneapolis Star v. Minnesota Comm'r - 460 U.S. 575 (1983)
 
I've spent a lot of time pondering the circumstance that the 2A is uniquely tied to a material object.

For instance, no one considers that paying sales tax on a bull-horn, typewriter or internet connection is equivalent to taxing the fundamental right of free speech.
But these are taxes of general applicability. Guns, too, are rightfully subject to a state's general sales tax. The Minneapolis Star case mentioned by JimDandy stands for the proposition that that special taxes aimed at curtailing a fundamental right is "presumptively unconstitutional." The problem, as we are seeing in the cases interpreting Heller and McDonald, is in the application of supposedly heightened standards of review when looking at the 2A rights.
 
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