A problem with the new 223 barrel

603Country

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This came as a huge surprise, and I haven't solved the problem yet. Thought I'd see what you other long-term reloaders have to say.

I had my 223 rebarreled and got it back late last week. Waited till today to start loading up rounds to see what combo the new barrel liked. All my resized brass and new Lapua brass chambered easily this weekend, so I set up the powder thrower and got to it. Seated a bullet (40 gr Nosler BT) to Nosler's suggested OAL of 2.26 inches. I had earlier measured the chamber and it would seat bullets out past that, so I'd start with the recommended OAL and then seat em further out once I found a good powder load. Rather than just load up a bunch before checking chambering, I went to chamber the round and it would not chamber. No way. Not even close. I couldn't believe that I had missed the OAL measurement, since I've been doing it for decades. I got out the mic and measured the neck with loaded bullet. No problem there. I punched out the barrel with a patch and cleaned out the chamber. Then I loaded a second round and tried to chamber it. No go. So I seated the bullet from 2.26 to 2.25. No go. Tried it at 2.24 and 2.23 and then at the Lyman suggested OAL of 2.215. The rounds will not chamber. I put some marksalot on the bullet and tried to chamber it. From that, it appears that the bullet, even seated deep, is hitting the lands.

When I got the rifle, the smith said he shot some factory rounds in it. The barrel had some carbon in it. If he shot factory loads, what the heck is going on? I have a call in to him, and an email. I don't have any factory loads, but my neighbor does. I'll call him and get a couple and see if they will chamber.

Maybe I'm just having a senior moment and I'm screwing something up on the reloads, but....what? I'm gonna go sit on the couch and think about this and then go back to the workshop and rethink the whole process. I do need a factory round or two for test purposes.

Your thoughts?
 
First of all, try seating the bullets to a standard max .223 length. Skip the crimp if your using one. Take rounds that aren't chambereing and cover with pencil/sharpie something and chamber in and see where its hitting at.
 
I used a marksalot on the case and tried to chamber it. Nothing showed up to disturb the marks. I went to the neighbor and got a couple of factory loads and THEY CHAMBER. My resized and new Lapua cases will chamber. a dummy reload with new Lapua or resized cases (sized to all the die will do) won't chamber. The problem has to be the OAL and the bullet hitting the lands. I'll go check that in a minute. Lord, I hope that's the problem. I know that the chamber is a 'match chamber' cut, so it's snug. I didn't expect that the leade would be so short (if that's what the problem is). I did measure for COAL prior to setting up to reload, so that's why I'm confused that my measurement didn't show up a short leade. I guess I missed it. This ain't my first rodeo, but I sure got thrown early....:-)

So...I'll seat the bullet a bit deeper and hope for the best. All I normally shoot are the 40 gr Ballistic Tips (great coyote medicine) and the 64 gr Nosler Bonded Solid Base (for the pigs). Hopefully I'll have loads that aren't seated too short to suit me. The 'smith' says he can cut the leade a couple more thousandths while I go for a burger if I want him to.

Cross your fingers that it's the seating depth that's getting me. If it is, I'll report on it.
 
What bullet was used in the factory rd that would chamber? I'm still leaning toward something in the seating process.

Is this a bolt gun? If so, reduce neck tension to ~1 tho and complete the seating with bolt closure. If it's the bullet hitting it will camber. If it the brass it wont (at least not easily).
 
Light bullets often have short radius ogives that will mess with a short match throat where a VLD shape doesn't. I would assume Nosler's COL to be for a standard .223 Chamber, which is likely what they had put in their Lilja barrel to be most generally compatible. A match chamber, if that's what you have, could well have shorter freebore and be geared toward VLD or other long shape. In any event, I expect shorter seating will fix it. You may want to knock the powder charge down a couple of grains for the deeper seating and shorter jump to the throat, then work back up.
 
I finally have the answer and I think it's going to surprise you. It wasn't a case resize issue. It wasn't a COAL issue. Not a bullet Ogive issue either. It was a case neck wall thickness issue. I was working only with Lapua brass, some new and some fired a couple of times. Turns out that the neck wall thickness of the brass ran as high as 0.0123, which was too thick for the new high dollar barrel with the match chamber. I made up some dummy rounds with Nosler (wall thickness of about 0.011) and they chambered fine. Same with some Winchester brass I had. The dummy round neck OD of the Nosler and Winchester dummy rounds was 0.245. The Winchester factory round measured 0.2445. The Lapua dummy round measured out (several dummy rounds) from 0.2485 to 0.2480, and they would not chamber. I looked up some old data I had on Brass from Nosler, Norma, Winchester, Remington, and Lapua. The Lapua had the thickest neck wall at 0.011, with everyone else right at 0.010. How in the world I wound up with Lapua brass at 0.012+, I have no idea.

The smith offered to ream the neck out a touch, but I said I'd just turn the necks on the Lapua brass. I don't have to touch the Nosler or Winchester brass. It's rather funny that I've been buying Lapua BECAUSE I hate neck turning, and now I have to neck turn only because it's Lapua brass. Crazy...

I suppose that you guys need to be aware that Lapua brass (some of it anyway) is or was running thick at the neck walls. Probably it wouldn't matter in most factory chambers, but it might if you have a match chamber. Luckily, I couldn't blow myself up, because I couldn't chamber a loaded round in Lapua brass. I don't make a habit of measuring the neck OD of loaded ammo, but this was a wakeup call for sure.

I'm an engineer. I love this stuff...

I've spent all day on this. Haven't loaded the first usable round. And I have to neck turn tomorrow. That'll take most of the day. Oh, well...

You guys think that Lapua might send me some on-spec brass if I tell them about this?

Mr Guffy will be pleased that I actually got out the feeler gauges today. He loves feeler gauges.
 
Odd you would have case neck thickness issues with new factory brass. Sounds more like a fault with the lapua brass being out of spec. I only have concerns with thickness when converting, never had that issue loading any of the spectrum of weights in .223.

Don't ream your chamber anymore if factory rounds chamber okay, will likely only be issue with that batch of brass....right? Am I missing something?

I would think whoever sold you the brass would likely take it back, prob don't need to mess with going straight to lapua

If I was buying brass, it'd be PPU.
 
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I sent a note to Lapua. The brass was, to me anyway, off-spec. Could be dangerous in just the wrong rifle chamber. I discussed it with the gunsmith and he had been measuring brass just like I had. Our numbers came up about the same, though he had some Lapua brass with a neck wall thickness of right at 0.013 inches. He was as surprised as me.

Let's see what Lapua says. Regardless, I'll be turning necks tomorrow.
 
"Don't ream your chamber anymore if factory rounds chamber okay, "

Not necessarily true. Not only does the round have to chamber, there must be enough clearance for the neck to expand and release the bullet.
 
I did discuss desired case neck thickness with the gunsmith. I had planned to turn the necks to a wall thickness of 0.0105. He suggested 0.010, and that's what I'll go with. That'll give me about the same neck wall thickness as I've seen on the Winchester factory loads, and on the case wall thicknesses of the Nosler and Winchester cases that I have primed.

So...I'll load one and get my wife to shoot it....just kidding.

Speaking seriously for a second, there are often posts here where folks talk about signs of high pressure, but they didn't load anywhere close to max with the powder. Nobody ever discusses case neck wall thickness as a potential contributor. I have to admit that I never even consider that as a possible problem. I probably wouldn't have caught it this time if I hadn't had the factory loads to measure, and the neck OD was the very last thing I measured.

So now, if you have a tight chamber, it might be a good idea to measure loaded neck OD. I will be.
 
Before I would turn the necks of the Lapua brass, I'd put them on the shelf and try working up loads with the Nosler and/or Winchester brass. Loading and shooting a bunch of reloads may reveal something you missed/more info. on your chambering issues...
 
An update on the new barrel and the problems I had for a day or two.

I've been shooting through that new barrel. All is well now that I discovered that I needed to turn necks if I wanted to chamber rounds. It took me a while to find the magic load for my favorite little 40 gr Nosler BT, but a 'warm' load of H335 will put 5 in one hole. That in no way means that I can put 5 into one hole, but the expensive new barrel and action tuning now makes it possible. There's practically zero vertical dispersion, but the horizontal is all me, and I will throw one a teensy bit left or right. I might get a better front rest.

Haven't yet found the best powder for the 64 gr Nosler Bonded Solid Base. It did not like H335. I have a lot of IMR3031, but it didn't like that either. I'll try IMR4064 next. And I have Varget and BL(C)-2 and AA2230. Surely one of those will give me what I need.

And, now that the neck wall thickness was the problem I'll try the Body Die again. It might work fine now that necks are turned. I can't use the Lee Collet Die, unfortunately. This chamber is so tight that I have had to use my RCBS FL die, and since I'm turning necks maybe I'll dust off the Redding Type S Bushing Die and try it again.
 
I'm a bench rest shooter 308 cal. Started out with the single stage RCBS Rockchucker, F/L & Neck die set. Changed to the S Type Bushing die's for a change in neck tension. Switched back to my original RCBS F/L die, adjust die to measure from bolt face to datum (head space) to .001 using RCBS Compitition Shell Holders, my runout is .000-.001 using the old F/L die. I stopped neck sizing, found F/L sizing more accurate. Glade you found your problem. Be Safe chris.
 
My custom 223 reamer is a 0.250" neck.
I measured a lot of cartridges around the house before I chose that number.
I have a bag of 100 Lapua 223 brass and have shot some, but I don't know it that is one of the cartridges I measured.
 
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