A new twist on keeping our weapons?

H

Hielo

New member
I need to find some sort of accepted religion that espouses the concept of self defense. If we can tie our firearms into religous practice, it woudl make it quite difficult to take them away from us.

Anyone know of a religion that this would fall under? Anyone want to join a religion?
 
Why because it is a civil right to practice religion? Not flaming you here, but so is keeping and bearing arms. The gov't decides what it will enforce regarding any of our civil rights.

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"Vote with a Bullet."
 
Hmmm, true. It also didn't help anyone in Waco, did it?

Still it is a thought, I would like to pursue.
 
My understanding is that the gov considers any religion and guns tied together as extremly dangerious. Any attempt would end up like waco.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Hielo, you can found a church based on just about anything. Good for tax breaks and such.

However, I think you'd have to do some research about the state of Freedom of Religion in this country before you would want to stake your RKBA on it. For instance, there was a Supreme Court ruling a few years back that pertains.

If I recall, Native Americans can't use the drug peyote in ceremonies anymore. I think that the ruling that came down was that the community had a "compelling interest" in suppressing the use of drugs, and that compelling interest overrode the right to worship as they wished. You could look it up, I'm too lazy. But if the gummint decides it has a "compelling interest" in keeping citizens from owning firearms, hiding behind religious freedom isn't going to help.

Point is, you'd probably be better off manning the first line of defense (2nd Amendment) rather than abandoning it for a hidey-hole that may not protect you any better.

FWIW.

pax

"The Clinton administration launched an attack on people in Texas because those people were religious nuts with guns. Hell, this country was founded by religious nuts with guns. Who does Bill Clinton think stepped ashore on Plymouth Rock? Peace Corps volunteers?" -- P.J. O'Rourke
 
Hielo, wasn't there a group in one of the Planet of the Apes movies that worshipped an ICBM? That might work - after all, if you're eventually going to be limited, might's well think big, huh? ;)

'Course, I don't know of any currently available holster rig that you could CCW with.

Sorry, shame on me - but it was "just there" ... :o

A
 
The peyote case did not say they couldn't use it, only that a drug counselor fired for using it couldn't claim unemployment benefits. No one was raiding their ceremonies busting them. That decision was overturned by legislation.

I understand that in Leviticus there is a requirement that a person arm themselves, though I haven't been able to find it. Everyone knows about Jesus telling everyone to sell their cloak and buy a weapon.

I also claim no personal knowledge of this, but I think the Koran has some strong language about self-defense.
 
Thanks for the info, RHC. :) Re the rest of your points. You could, of course, write your own bible instead. Easier to make it plain that way.

The big problem with Hielo's idea is that the entire Bill of Rights is no longer secure. It's been breached in several places. Ninth amendment, anyone?

When one freedom is eroded, the others are at risk of being washed away as well. Where shall we place the retaining wall?

pax

"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default, it can never be recovered." -- Dorothy Thompson
 
Freedom of religion isn't absolute. Try to open the Aztec Church of Human Sacrifice.

Even animal sacrifice cults get busted.

Also, look at the laws that ban carry in churches in some parts of the country.

That is clearly a 1st Amend. issue but no one brings it up.

By the way, I wrote the NRA and my congressman and the Justice League of American and am surprised that this take on the church issue goes nowhere.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hielo:
I need to find some sort of accepted religion that espouses the concept of self defense. If we can tie our firearms into religous practice, it woudl make it quite difficult to take them away from us.

Anyone know of a religion that this would fall under? Anyone want to join a religion?[/quote]

Sure. Judaism, or Christianity. Both espouse self-defense and defense of others. You won't get that info from the mainline churches though, since corporately they have abondoned the original Gospel for a new, more palatable "social gospel."



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"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
Luke 22:36
"An armed society is a polite society."
Robert Heinlein
"Power corrupts. Absolute power - is kinda cool!"
Fred Reed
 
"A wayfarer should not walk unarmed,
But have his weapons to hand:
He knows not when he may need a spear,
Or what menace meet on the road."
the Havamal

Asatru is a Norse Pagan Religion. Practiced by many in modern times. The Havamal is a semi-religious text of the Asatru religon. It tells the individual how to live his life much like the Koran or the Talmud.
 
Sikhs have a literal requirement to go armed everywhere they go, IIRC. However, they are specifically required to carry a certain type of knife. A firearm wouldn't count.

I think maybe Hielo's point is not about government but public opinion--he thinks the public would be reluctant to act as bigots against a religion. I doubt it, myself. Sorry, Hielo, it won't happen. As pointed out above, most religions require the pious defend life, but that's not the popular view right now so it vanishes. Keep cranking 'em out, though!
 
Hi Heilo!

I don't think religion matters or will have any effect. They have already taken prayer and God out of schools (for those that want it there) they are just knocking down the amendments one by one. Guns, Religion, and soon to follow speech. I honestly think the only way we are going to save anything is by cleaning out that big white house and getting all new 'furniture' in there. Personally I think the people in there live in their own little world and do not care about us people who live in the real world. I wish a religion was the answer but I don't think it is. :(

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Sandys' Homepage
RKBA forums
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
I'm not to keen on the idea of changing religion so I can carry a weapon. The concept of ones relationship with God(s) shouldn't be a "this one lets me do what I want to". The very concept to me cheapens the entire idea of religion.

However. I beleave in the Right of Self Defence. And to me, any religion that was True or Correct would have to include this Right. This is why I'm not Amish. So I beleave it's ok to convert to another religion based on that religion's beleafs. But the acceptance needs to be at a higher level.

Ok now that I just confused myself I'll shut up now. I think I'm going outside the bounds of this Board.
 
"If we can tie our firearms into religous practice, it woudl make it quite difficult
to take them away from us."

No it wouldn't. The only thing that will make it difficult for "them" to take our guns is for us to make it difficult for "them."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff OTMG:
I think that you will find the Mormon church to be very pro-gun and pro-self defense.[/quote]

Back in ( I believe ) 1895 The Mormons were forced to stop polygamy . The Supreme Court was rather deft in their handling of this when it came before them on Freedom Of Religion grounds . The Court in it's infinite wisdom said that they may BELIEVE anything their little hearts desired . They just could not DO IT !!
So if your religion states that you must own many exotic weapons of all types and calibers they will tell you it's O.K. to think that . Just don't do it .
The Supreme Court is not last because they are always right . They are always right because they are last . It's good to be King .



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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
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