A new Chinese pistol

I think this excerpt from the article says it all...
IHS Jane's 360 said:
...the Type 11 is intended for use as a personal protection sidearm for senior officers and officials... Although unconfirmed, the lightweight Type 11 pistol has been reported as using the 5.8 mm DCV-05 sub-sonic cartridge rather than the standard 5.8 mm DAP-92 cartridge that is used in the locked-breech Type 92 pistol...
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Translation: "This pistol is intended for personnel who are highly unlikely to ever have to fire it in anger; accordingly, it uses a special cartridge with power comparable to .32 ACP, to make it more pleasant to practice with." ;)
 
I would not sell it short right out of the chute, nor heap disrespect on it yet. Its 23 caliber, fires a 45-46 grain bullet at 1700 FPS. Just about like a 22 WMR. I you have seen the 22 mag in action you'd see it's not a toy. No, it's not a 223 or a 22-250, but it's not something you can hold as a "non-threat" either.
The Chinese have a very good idea on taking control of much of the world in their massive export of very sub-standard quality goods which are introduced at very low prices.
Back in the mid 90s a friend of mine in the CIA briefed me on their new economic strategy and I have to admit it's working well.

The idea is to make junk and garbage and sell it at such low prices that people will buy the merchandise at the low price and think of them as expendable items. As an example you could buy a good quality phone for $100 or a Chinese phone for $9. The customer thinks that throwing away a 9 dollar phone ever few years is still a “better deal” then buying a phone that will last a lifetime. In doing this the domestic manufacturer is forced out of business and shuts down. Then the Chinese raise their prices but not their quality.

Now the country is flooded with very low quality goods that will not last more than a year or two. And replacing the junk with good stuff is no longer an option for the consumers.

So when the Chinese government wants to bring pressure on any nation that has lost its own ability to produce goods they art free to do so, and the industry cannot just spring back and take up the slack.
They can shut down the exportation of goods to that country and within a year or so, the country in question will dance to the tune the Chinese play. It’s conquest of a nation without use of force.

The reason I put this info out in this post is because most American shooters seem to believe that Chinese weapons are in the same league as everything else made in Chine that they can buy in their local markets. In other words, junk.

Such is NOT the case. Chinese weapons are as a rule excellent. Not the ones they make to export, but all those they make for their own use.

In fact, almost everything made in China that is not to be exported is of excellent quality. The Chinese know it’s in their best interest to flood foreign markets with junk only and keep the good stuff for themselves.
I have handled some Chinese weapons and shot a few in the past and I have to give them credit. Many were of better quality than what we were using.

We should wait and see how the new gun works before we pass any judgments on it’s worthiness as a military weapon.
 
be interesting to see if anybody runs w/ the design or cartridge

I gotta think someone will think it has enough to recommend making use of some parts or part.
 
For a close range, personal defense weapon, the cartridge makes sense. In that kind of situation, rapid fire is more important than power and the user of that gun can probably take out two or three enemy while the user of a .45 pistol is recovering from the recoil of his first shot.

Jim
 
I'm betting ballistics are close to 5.7X28. If so it will be a good choice for a combat pistol. Should zip right through body armor.
 
Wyosmith said:
I would not sell it short right out of the chute, nor heap disrespect on it yet. Its 23 caliber, fires a 45-46 grain bullet at 1700 FPS. Just about like a 22 WMR. I you have seen the 22 mag in action you'd see it's not a toy.
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Although Western information (at least non-classified information...) on the 'Net is scant, the 1,700 fps figure apparently applies to the so-called DAP-92 version of the Chinese 5.8x21mm cartridge, and from a submachine gun. The Jane's article says that the Type 11 pistol uses the subsonic DCV-05 version.

Assuming the DCV-05 is just barely subsonic (1,150 fps) and uses the same bullet as the DAP-92 (46gr), its muzzle energy would be around 130 fpe, which is almost exactly the same as a 73gr bullet at 900 fps- the nominal .32 ACP standard. :)

Actually, I was mainly just being snide. :p

Since the DCV-05 supposedly functions in the same guns as the DAP-92, it's likely that the DCV-05 uses a heavier bullet, in which case it's probably equivalent to a slightly downloaded .30 Luger- not necessarily wimpy but no powerhouse either, although it could be very effective in rapid fire, as James K notes.

Also, it's unclear whether the Type 11 can safely fire the DAP-92; my hunch is that it probably can, although muzzle blast is probably dazzling and deafening (just like its nominal predecessor, 7.62x25 Tokarev), which is likely the reason why the DCV-05 is being used in this pistol.

Also...
doofus47 said:
It sounds like they rechambered their makarov knockoffs.
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I suspect that the pistol's external resemblance to a Makarov is only superficial, although it may be intentional to some degree.

Notably, the pistol's profile suggests that it has a separate guide rod rather than a recoil spring around the barrel like a Mak, which would make sense if the Type 11 uses locked-breech rather than pure blowback operation- and it probably does, as I seriously doubt that pure blowback operation is practical with a cartridge as powerful as 5.8x21mm DAP-92, unless the pistol were as bulky as a Hi-Point.
 
We should wait and see how the new gun works before we pass any judgments on it’s worthiness as a military weapon.
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The article specifically states that it is not for the military and that the military model uses a locking breach. So I would be led to believe this is a blow back design.

Jim
 
Jim243 said:
The article specifically states that it is not for the military and that the military model uses a locking breach. So I would be led to believe this is a blow back design.
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Where does it say that? :confused:

[Edit to add] The article says that the Type 92 is locked-breech; this implies that the Type 11 is not locked-breech, but the author does not definitively say so.
 
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Hey don't poop on it. The soviets had a 5.45x18 cartridge which on paper, has muzzle energy and velocity very close to .22LR

AP bullets in that cartridge were reported to penetrate about 45 layers of Kevlar at close range.
 
I would not say the pre-ban Chinese 1911 in .45 ACP and the Model 213 in 9 mm were junk.

Many of them are still around and some find them desirable. I have a Model 213, and it is reliable and rather enjoyable to shoot. It is not the best or the prettiest pistol in my pistol rack.
 
So, a Makarov with dovetailed sights and a modern magazine release. Huh.
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Darn it Tom, I was going to post that and be the witty and insightful EastBloc pistol connoisseur.

I find it interesting in the way that I've always found small caliber sidearms interesting.
 
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