A little help please?

D

Derius_T

New member
If this post is in the wrong section, please move it to the right one.

I will just give the short & sweet version, and would like your opinions please.

I have a band, that plays 50's thru 70's music, and classic country. We were auditioned saturday, for a nice paying job later this year. The people came from Louisville or Lexington, Kentucky to see us perform, out in the country about 45 minutes East of Cincinnati Ohio. (a pretty good drive)

We set up, and did a sound check outside on a large deck, at about 5:00pm. We do not play loud, as we are accustomed to playing small areas like VFW halls, American Legions, Car Shows, Weddings, ect.

We waited for the people to arrive, and ate a bit, then proceeded to play at 6:00pm. We played about 3 or 4 songs, and at about 6:20, the local sherriff arrived.

He told us that there had been a complaint from the neighbors, and that we would have to turn down. I asked if there was a noise ordinance of some kind, as it was still really early. I got a VERY rude reply along the lines of, "No, there are no laws regulating noise levels, but when the noise is unacceptable to someone and we get called, we have to warn you."

I responded that sure, we would turn it down, no problem, but what would happen if we turned it down, and the neighbors still decided to complain again?

I was told, "If I get called again, I will have to come back out here, and since you failed to comply with my warning earlier, you will all be charged with disorderly conduct, and you WILL turn it off and go home, or be arrested for failing to disperse."

OMG! I'm so extremely PISSED. Is this for real? Is it legal? Let me stress that the nearest neighbor is over 100 yards away, and while you could have heard it in their yard, it was certainly not loud enough to disrupt any activity IN their home.

Do we have to live our lives in compliance to what other people say we have to do? What is this world coming to?

What if the situation was different? What if the 'noise' from your target practicing 'bothered' your neighbors? Could the police tell you to stop the noise or face legal action? Just because someone complained? What the hell kind of law is this?
 
Check if your locale has a noise ordinance specifying a cut-off time for "noisy" activities. Most places it's 8 or 9 pm.

Check if sherrif actually DID have a "complaint". You can ask to see the log.

Check the noise level WITH A METER at the edge of your property closest to the neighbors who complained. If it's within acceptable range (ie: a motorcycle or car or lawnmower) then the complaint can't stand. Ask if the cop checked the noise level with a meter - if he didn't he has no legal basis for requesting you to stop playing.

To me it sounds like the cop was throwing his weight around without anything to back him up. Next time, invite a lawyer to your bash and have him deal with the issue if it pops up again. In any event, if you choose to do anything other than comply, be prepared for an escalation in law "enforcement" and be prepared to pay the consequences should the justice system not see things your way.
 
I'd call B.S. The deputy answered your question when he said, "No, there are no laws regulating noise levels..." Of course, you should check that yourself. I'd be willing to wager that all he was doing was warning you that the neighbors had complained.

I think he was probably just using his position of authori-tie to help keep the peace in the neighborhood.

What did you do after he left? Did you tone it down and finish your set, or quit?

-Dave
 
"while you could have heard it in their yard, it was certainly not loud enough to disrupt any activity IN their home."

I live 62 yards from a restaurant/bar/joint - and I was here first...by 20+ years. My neighbor has been here since 1947. You don't think we should be able to enjoy the use of my back yard, talk at the dinner table and sleep at night?

You would be amazed how loud a band or dj can be when you live in a quiet house. Our homes were built in 1916 and have 14-inch thick solid brick walls lined with about an inch of plaster. Let me tell you, the booming seems to amplify when it comes through the glass. At the same time, it doesn't sound that loud outside most of the time. Inside it's like a freaking psycho dripping faucet - Boom, Boom, Boom.

I wish that officer worked here, it would have solved my problem with these yo-yos. As it was, I had to organize the neighbors and let the VA Alcohol Beverage Control Department Hearing Judge take care of it.

John...don't ask me about loud car stereos and idiots whose car alarms honk the horn everytime they arm or disarm them. It's like they're proud they have an alarm and want everybody to know it. Chumps. Rude chumps.
 
Bluesman, we just said screw it and packed up our gear and went home. If I had known about a noise meter I would have asked him, but I can just imagine how puffed-up he would have gotten if I asked him if he checked the noise level with a meter. :)

We weren't playing very loud, as we are all accomplished musicians with many years experience playing inside very small areas. (And have never been asked to turn down even at the smallest inside gig)

I found out today that it was an @-hole neighbor who was looking for ANY reason to get back at our host, since he stopped letting them use his yard for a driveway, and made them gravel their own.

What really po's me about it is the THOUGHT that if one person complains you legally HAVE to stop what you are doing!? Even if it is not in itself an illegal activity!?!? (as in no noise ordinance) That could be applied to SO many things....makes me want to make a call to the sherriff's office and ask to speak with the head honcho about this.....
 
Even without a noise ordinance, I think that disturbing the peace could still apply for being noisy. I can tell you right now, unless you were inside a noise proof room, band instruments by themselves are annoying and loud enough to disturb my peace. I quite probably would have called the cops too.
 
Mike P. Wrote:

Even without a noise ordinance, I think that disturbing the peace could still apply for being noisy. I can tell you right now, unless you were inside a noise proof room, band instruments by themselves are annoying and loud enough to disturb my peace. I quite probably would have called the cops too.
Click to expand...

So just because you find music irritating personally, means YOU and only YOU, have the right to complain and force me to stop what I enjoy? Even though no laws prohibit it? Bit of an elitist attitude wouldn't you say? Wouldn't it have been much simpler for them to walk 100 yards and ask us to turn it down? (Which we would have gladly done if they asked)

No, they chose to GET IN THEIR CAR, and drive 10 miles to the nearest payphone, and call the police. Who somehow beat them back to their house by 10 minutes.....they were getting ready to leave when they pulled back up. Then they came over to us. You could see it all going on over the 10 foot privacy fence seperating the yards.....we all wondered what was up, until they pulled in our driveway next.....
 
Actually any neighbor would have a right to complain if it's disturbing their peace, nothing elitist about it.
 
Seems like you should have a right to confront your accuser...

In Colorado, if for instance an anonymous neighbor calls to complain about a barking dog, the caller can remain anonymous the first time and animal control must investigate. If the call was groundless, the second time, however, the anonymous caller must sign a complaint.
 
It seems to me that you guys are reasonable people. I'm sure that if that "neighbor" would have asked you to turn it down, you would have done so. If not, I could understand his complaint.
But no, nowdays, it seems that people don't talk to their neighbors anymore. Instead of trying to live together in harmony, people get in each others faces, call the cops on their neighbors and wait for officials or governments to fix their little insignificant problems.

This somehow strongly reminds me of 3 people in California filing a lawsuit about "under God" in the pledge of allegeance and ruining it for the 35 millions others who have no problem with it.

I'm just so tired of self-centered people using law enforcement, governments and lawyers to screw this country up in order to please their little ego!

Keep playing, man!
 
Here's a little story that may apply:

TheBluesMan recently had a birthday that ended in a zero, so Mrs. Blues threw a big party with my friends and family in attendance. She asked TFL member Falconer if he had any ideas for a fun activity at my birthday party. Falconer, naturally, replied, "Shooting!" and contacted his friend Brian at Bulletcamp.

Brian set up a really nice array of targets on my uncle's 10 acre property next door to my house. We began shooting at about 2:30 p.m. starting with shotguns against sodapop cans launched from a compressed air cannon. This was followed by shotguns against about three cases of clays. We had about a dozen shooters (4 or 5 are TFL members) alternating two at a time on the firing line. All in all we spent about an hour and a half shooting clays and pop cans. We then transitioned to pistols against pneumatically controlled steel plates. Again, we had no more than two shooters on the line at a time, but after about three straight hours of shooting, the police showed up.

"Officer Jack" is the DARE officer for my daughter's school. I've seen him a few times and he recognized me also. As they say in Texas (by Gawd!), "We've howdied, but ain't shook." My uncle and I met him half-way across the field and introduced ourselves. He said that a neighbor complained about the shooting and he was there to check it out. We asked if there was a new law against shooting on private property, and he replied, "No. I'm just here to make sure that that is what you are doing; shooting on private property."

"We are." My uncle replied.

"Okay, good enough for me." Officer Jack replied with a shrug, then added, "What are you guys shooting at?"

"Steel plates, mostly" I said. "You want to take a look at our setup? It's pretty sweet."

"Yeah, sure. If you don't mind."

"Not at all," my uncle said, "Come on back."

Jack came back and looked at Brian's setup. He commented that it was nicer than the police range where the township police train. I introduced Jack to a few of our guests and we chatted about guns and targets and training for about five minutes. Finally Jack said that he didn't want to put a cramp in the party and that we should get back to shooting. TFL member 3gun obliged him by sending about 8 rounds through his Remington 1100 in about three seconds, knocking down eight plates.

Now, I think that Officer Jack was pretty slick in getting himself invited to view our range, but I also think that he would have left with the landowner's assurance that they were shooting on private property. About an hour after he left, I got out my AR-15 and touched off a Tannerite target which doubtlessly shook all our neighbor's windows. Officer Jack did not, however, return and we continued shooting for another two hours.

It was a great party and a great encounter with the local police. We were courteous to him and demonstrated our knowledge of local law. We never offered to stop shooting and he never asked us to stop either.

I'd say that our neighbor had a right to complain, but the police had no power to make us stop our pursuit of a legal activity and didn't try to pretend that he did. That's the difference. Neighbors can complain, but if there's no law against what you're doing, then you can keep on doing it. Just don't expect to be buddy-buddy with your neighbor afterward.

To my wife's credit, she invited all the neighbors to my party; but there's one in every neighborhood that does nothing but complain. If they don't like it, they can move out of the township and into town where there are noise ordinances.

-Dave
 
Great story Bluesman, wish I could have been there! :)

But this officer actually said that simply because a neighbor complained, and only on those grounds, that if they complained again, we WOULD get a DISORDERLY CONDUCT ticket, which amounts to disturbing the peace, even though there is no local noise ordinance at all......still seems crappy to me...
 
Would it be any different, if I were to play loud band instruments while Derius_T tried to sleep or if I were shooting for hours on end and setting off explosives while the Bluesman tried to sleep?
 
Mike, 6:00pm is a reasonable time. It would be different if it was 10:00pm. In this case, anyone could call the cops 'cause their neighbor is mowing the lawn, blowing leaves, cutting lumber, etc...
 
Tell that to a day sleeper that works nights. All I'm saying is that people's peace can legitimately be disturbed by loud noises. Without knowing the exact ordinances, the cop in music scenario might have been as right as rain about disorderly conduct. And continued shooting and explosives detonation, while fun, can lead not only to people who like peace and quiet leaving for the big city, but also to people pushing for noise ordinances and anti-shooting laws in the country. I don't know how Bluesman's rural area is set up or how close his neighbors are. What he does is probably hunky dory, but if I had neighbors nearby, I'd stick to sub-sonic 22lrs and CB caps for extended shooting.
 
The lack of a noise meter means nothing. It is the officer's judgement and his or her ability to articulate it in court that matters.

You DO have the ability to confont your accuser, unfortunately it'll take place at your trial.

Shooting for 5 hours straight, complete with explosions? Is that really being neighborly?

No one will respect or acknowledge your rights unless you reciprocate. Life is a series of compromises.
 
"But this officer actually said that simply because a neighbor complained, and only on those grounds, that if they complained again, we WOULD get a DISORDERLY CONDUCT ticket"

No doubt he said that. The way it works here is that the responding officer has to hear it for himself. It's not the complaint that generates the ticket, it's the officer's decision whether it's too loud.

I wonder how many complaints they'd had about the place you were playing?

FWIW, calls to the police about holders of an alcohol license are logged and forwarded to the VA ABC Special Agent in charge of that area. The stack of reports on the joint I mentioned was THICK because of the hundreds (thousands) of calls over a year+ period. Yes, I/we had been over to talk. Yes, we called. Yes, they're a bunch of idiots, but now they're quieter idiots.

A sound meter doesn't tell the entire story - the bar owner's sound man used one. Talk to a qualified engineer - I did.

John

P.S. - I even had prints off their web site advertising the Boom Boom Room. And newspaper ads as well. They still tried to deny it. Morons.
 
I'll preface by saying that I've read every post

interesting conflict of people's percieved rights. a few points stand out.

while one may have no legal obligation to cease an activity that is not illegal, there are questions of a moral nature. I sure would be pissed if my neighbor's party were invading my space (maybe more pissed that I were not invited :D ), but pissed as well if my legal party was halted because of a petty neighbor and a Barney Fife wanna-be. where's the balance?

the problem is, we can live our lives trying to be courteous and thoughtful of others but some people are NEVER satisfied. we all know them, have dealt with them, and know that those people would complain about 22s and CB caps anyway. the trick is for grown-ups to figure things out. some people refuse to act grown up however.

I work nights, sleep during the day. my neighbor has a small business in his back yard/garage area, uses power tools a lot not 30 yards from my bedroom window. I use ear plugs because what he is doing is NOT illegal, and the world does NOT revolve around me.
I've talked to him, and he mostly cranks up the table saw after noon out of consideration for me. He also knows if he screws up with the power tools, he's heading to my house for treatment so.... :D

We're grown ups, we have an understanding, though were he or I the inconsiderate type, this situation could easilly involve the police.

can't we all just get along?....

oh, Derius, do you have a CD out? Lemme hear your stuff!
 
There are no noise ordinances that apply to shooting during the day in the county I live in. The operative word in the law is "reasonable", and that's a matter of judgement.

If I worked third shift and my neighbor was out shooting or playing music really loud while I was trying to sleep in the middle of the afternoon there's nothing that I could do about it except ask him to stop. There would be nothing that the police would be able to do about it either. The middle of the afternoon is a reasonable time to be doing such activities.

Mike, I'd respond better to a friendly request by a neighbor to refrain from shooting during certain hours of the day than I would to a "demand" from a police officer who can't charge me with anything other than "contempt of cop." Calling the police on your neighbors when you know what is going on (because you've received an invitation) isn't being neighborly.

-Dave

P.S. Utaherrn - Great post! When neighbors engage in legal activities that are potentially conflicting, being courteous and considerate is the responsible thing to do.
 
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