A lesson for the lad

N

newarcher

Moderator
I took my family on vacation to Florida and while on the way back, we stopped for a bathroom break at a KFC. My son and I went in first and my wife and daughter stayed outside to walk the dog. It was a decent enough looking area.

I came out and my wife kind of gave me the stink eye. Seems that while she was out there, she had a woman walk up and invite her to buy some remote control toys. My wife, being a proper Southern woman who is afraid to be rude to anyone, says "no thanks we are coming back from vacation and have no money". The lady was polite and walked off.

As I was coming out with my son, the male of the pair pair started to approach me from about the 4 o clock position. He said "excuse me sir". I stopped, took a very deliberate half step his way (read stomp) and put my hand out and firmly said "Not interested". He wasn't a problem and backed off....I think somewhat surprised with my strong reaction. My proper Southern wife said "well, how did you know what he wanted"....I said "well, he doesn't belong to me and he has nothing to offer me whatsoever except trouble".

After we left, I realized I wouldn't let my wife alone again and my son asked me why I was so frank with the guy (my son is 8). So I was able to instill the fact that predators often use people's niceness against them to get close enough so they can attack them or rob them. So I told him the best defense is a good offense. I told him that any show of meekness...not meeting their eyes, looking away, looking down, letting a person approach too closely, etc. would be seen as a show of weakness to bad people.

He certainly understood that. Hopefully, he will remember it. I do that quite often with the panhandlers that hang around walmart. I find that when you spin around and shove that hand out, people assume that the other hand is waking smitty up from his nap.

New
 
I would say you are a bit paranoid. Acting to tough will get you into just as much trouble as not acting like a hard ass. I wont live in world where everyone is a jerk. Not my style and i have lived in some pretty bad places.
 
We are often faced with such decisions and have to react in the way we see fit. If you had dropped your wallet, I imagine he would (or should) have said; "excuse me sir, you dropped this". Otherwise, I suppose you were on point to realize that you were with family and responsible for their well being. If he was just asking directions and it offended him, too bad. Nowadays we need to be wary. The BG's will always go for the easy mark. The fact that he backed off meant that he either felt he could deal with someone else (if his intentions were innocent) or that you were not worth taking a risk on should his intentions be otherwise.
One thing though, I might be a bit careful about sticking a hand out at someone, and a firm stance might be better than a step forward.
 
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One more thing,
If you hold a CCP remember your responsibilities and the dangers of confrontation. You may need to back down even against some punk you could tie into a pretzel.
 
I think you're parinoid. A stranger aproaches your wife, and tries to sell her soemthing, and now you cant leave her alone?

Part of living in a world with other people is interacting with them. Keep in mind, most people in the world mean you no harm. That stranger waving you down could very well be trying to return something you dropped. Give them the benifit of the doubt. A quick, paranoid reaction like that could have bad results. Personally, if i saw somone react like that to me speaking to them, I'd assume they either had mental problems, were guilty of some mischeif, or were on drugs.
 
Well, perhaps I am paranoid but I am sure there are any number of victims of violent crime who wish they had been paranoid.

Also, I failed to mention that I saw him holding some toys and I knew that he wanted to sell me something...typical fence.

I wasn't carrying, which is another reason I didn't want the guy near me/us.

I think my reaction was spot on given that he approached from a blind position as soon as we walked out of the building. I assumed in the split second timeframe that he wanted to sell me something but I wasn't letting him get near us, that I knew.

New
 
If he was a fence, he wasn't going to cause you any trouble. They don't need the attention. He could have been some kind scam artist, in which case he doesn't need any trouble, and wasn't likely to cause you any. He could have been a mentally ill homeless person trying to sell you some trash, in which case you might be in some danger, and you might be able to scare him off, or you might not be in danger, and you might set him off for no reasons.

With the facts you presented, I would have just said, "no thanks", and if they continued to follow me or pester me, I would have gotten progressively firm, until I left, they left, or I had to treaten to call the cops if they didn't leave me alone.

Now, all that being said, sometimes you can get a "vibe" off of people. Although, sometimes what vibe you get says more about you than them.
 
It always comes down to the situation and your spidey-senses. Newarcher raised a very good point; some people that approach you and who are intent on doing you harm use the 'niceness' against you. It can be used a tell...are you overly nice and accomodating, firm but courteous, or downright nasty?

Depending on the criminal, all can work against you. I've been overly nice and accomodating to the homeless, only to have them want more and curse me or spit at me when I don't give it to them. I had one gentleman that my senses told me he was up to no good, so I brushed him off as soon as he opened his mouth. He took offense and essentially talked me for two blocks until I confronted him on a side street and withdrew a panga from by knapsack. Similar situation where someone asked me for 'directions', I honestly told him I didn't know. Instead of going elsewhere to ask someone else, he just kind of stood around, looking suspicious until other folks came -- this was at a train station.

So the OP may have very well had good reason to act as he did. Ya just don't know unless you're there and involved in the situation.
 
I must be paranoid too - that situation had a certain smell to it, and I'm not talking about the dead bird parts boiled in oil.
 
After we left, I realized I wouldn't let my wife alone again
Click to expand...

Um...sounds like she handled it just fine, without being confrontational. Acting too assertive can *start* trouble, and if you're carrying, you *really* need to not be the one to start trouble. A simple "no, thanks" is sufficient. And gluing yourself to your wife is unnecessary. She's a grownup. If you're that concerned, talk to her about getting her own concealed carry license. You cannot possibly always be with her, anyway, so she should be able to take care of herself in a threat.

Springmom
 
Well, about the wife, it wasn't because a woman approached her. I am not that paranoid. My thought later (this was our first vacation with the dog) is that I have no idea how bad the area is or who is around. She's in unfamiliar terroritory so it probably isn't a great idea for her to be alone without help around. I don't think I need to defend that position, given the young girl abducted and killed from the parking lot.

My reaction was definitely strong but it got his attention and got me the desired results. Had my kids not been there and if I didn't get the hinky vibe from the wife when I walked out, I might have given him 2 seconds of time. But I got the vibe, he got the hand, and we got out of there.

I am 6'3" 285 so I was prepared for come what may. I figure that if a firm NOT INTERESTED starts some crap, then he had bad intentions on his mind.

New
 
Newarcher, Don't feel the need to defend yourself. We all see things differently, and many good folks out there just woulnd't have taken it quite as stoutly as you did, but that's how YOU do it. You didn't punch him out, and all ended well. As I said before, I'd just watch the strong body language, It could be construed by a witness as a threatening stance. BTW, I'm pretty protective of my family too. I have a gorgeous daughter who looks 18 even though she's 14. I personally find nothing wrong with being my wife's protector, and she even has a gun of her own. If you put it out on this forum, people will give straight talk. That's alot better than placidity. We should all consider the advice and experience of others who hold the HUGE responsibility of defending themselves with possibly deadly force.
 
Tanzer,

I got ya, no offense taken to anything anyone said at all.

Mainly, I was clarifiying based on some of the feedback given so it didn't appear I was out of my mind totally.

New
 
I think since all is well that you did well newarcher. When I go to the store sometimes people stand out front and want to sell stuff. I don't pay much attention to them and hardly ever respond to them. I don't want to be rude it's just that I came to the store to buy food not shell out cash for some fund.
 
my take

I can kind of see where newarcher is coming from. In a situation, whether in an unfamiliar area, or just late at night, I keep my right hand close to my CRKT Kasper in my right pocket. I have even gotten my girlfriend to understand that she needs to be on my leftside if she wants to hold my hand. I'm right-handed so I prefer to keep it free. I usually do not carry my CCW simply because I don't want to feel likeI have to rely on it. If I am approached from a blind spot, I instinctvely reach for the knife as I turn to see what the approaching person wants. If it seems like a bad situation, I draw attention to the blade without removing it from my pocket and tell the person to get lost. Same goes for panhandlers when I'm stopped at a redlight, the knife stays on my lap in plain sight.
 
DougO,

I would not recommend brandishing or otherwise drawing attention to any weapon (gun, knife, stick, or whatever). If you are a target for some crime (somebody doesn't just want a victim, they want you), it will likely escalate the ammount of violence, and no matter what, you're putting yourself in a tougher legal situation (in NYC that would get you arrested, in other parts of NY, it may get you arrested, your state may vary).

It's also just unnecessary, and kind of antisocial, trying to scare off people (including homeless guys) by flashing a knife.
 
Civility is the lubricant of society -

but some folks are just going to chap you no matter what.

I had the benefit of a good Southern upbringing, and I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, but if they can't take "Thanks, but no thanks/ not interested/etc", I don't have a big problem with asking, "What part of 'no thank you' don't you understand?"

There are those who will take advantage of one's good nature & civility, but it's a two-way street. Those who don't want to 'play nice' don't deserve further consideration after they demonstrate their lack of manners. It isn't rude to tell then to 'bugger off' if they can't take a polite "no thanks". Then again, I'm 6'3", 250#, and not hardly shy . . .
 
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