A good point

Coinneach

Staff Alumnus
My coworker just noted that the death toll in Turkey is up to 6300, and that the media are taking a "ho-hum" attitude towards it.

He then noted that those same media absolutely FREAKED over 12 people dead in Littleton.

This guy isn't even a gungeek(tm), and he's pissed about the treatment we're getting.

Something to think about.

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
Simple answer to that--you can't impose a ban on earthquakes to further your political career.

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Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
 
Littleton helped forward there agenda.
3600 dead in another country? They dont care - that's filler news!
Did they cover the effect it had on the US Bases there? Service Men?

Doubt it. No GUN was involved, No Scandel, Ne Sex, No spurting Flames and screaming? Media only wants hype and agenda...

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"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."


RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
I'm not wondering why we're getting shafted. Hell, I know more about how the media work than I want, having a relation who works for CBS (hock-ptui). My point was that even the people who are neutral in the debate are noticing the disparity.

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
what really need to do is ban the making of buildings. That way no one would be killed by falling houses, Then we could sue the people who make wood planks and bricks or anyone who has anything to do with making houses or other buildings.

Oh wait you said this happend in another country, well I quess no one from here cares
where is the anti-housers when you need one



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"Are we at last brought to such an humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our own defense? Where is the difference between having our arms under our own possession and under our own direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?"
- Patrick Henry

http://www.homestead.com/gunrights/Guns_and_Gunrights.html
 
Your media would be the same as ours. If they aren't white and don't speak english it doesn't matter how many die.
It will fade from the news in a day or two.
I just remember the coverage of the last LA earthquake, it probably recieved 100 times the coverage here that the earthquakes in Turkey will recieve. The news on the media these days is just about entertainment.
Also they played phone calls from the Atlanta shooting here last night. Sure it's chilling but it's of no real news value, it just lets the nutcases know that if they go on a murder rampage they will get plenty of news coverage and become famous.
 
The natural disaster in this poor country is awful, but it is a very bad place to live if you are alive and desire freedom. I spoke with a USAF fireman who served at Clarke(sp?)AFB who dragged out most of a tank crew who dumped their vehicle in a firey wreck. The next day he stopped by the ER and inquired about the men he had risked his neck for. He was told that they had been taken out and shot by their CO. Turkish military service is mandatory and commissioned officers are within legal bounds to execute an insubordinate on the spot.
 
My "favorite" Turkey story -
A few (~5, I think) years ago, some Turkish Christians were on trial for desecrating a mosque, a capital offense in an Islamic country like Turkey. Here's the great part - whatever was written on the mosque was judged so offensive by the court that the jury wasn't even allowed to hear what it was, or see any pictures of it!!!

Peoples lives hung in the balance over allegedly painting something on a building, but the jury wasn't even allowed to see/hear all the evidence, because the evidence was deemed too offensive! Now, if they were accused of mutilating children, well, the jury could have seen tons of 8x10 glossies from the autopsy, that's okay, but something painted on a building - no way!! That's why there's separation of church and state, folks.
 
ya know what is very nice about USA?
right now a disaster rescue squad from Fairfax VA is in Turkey. The flew a semi tractor full of gear & people there.

i hope we won't need it here, while we have it there...


dZ
 
I say ban buildings over 10 stories !
The death toll would be much lower, of course LEO buildings could have as many floors as they wanted. ;)
For that matter, the FBI & BATF should be located in the Penthouse of any Sky Scraper that'll have 'em !
The taller the better, eh guys ? :D

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
 
No matter how you look at it, it's a tragedy of immense proportions. Just imagine being, literally, buried alive for 60+ hours!!

The media's problem???

There's no one to blame!!!

B
 
That is exactly right. The media's problem with the story is that there is no one to blame.

They have looked for a scapegoat though: I have seen stories about "shoddy construction work" in which they blame "greedy" builders and land owners (or whoever they can find to blame) for making cheap buildings.

They would blame God for the earthquake, but according to the media, there is no God.
 
No, no, no, no...I think the media knows who to blame--they simply refuse to accept responsibility for the fact, because it would indict their own beliefs.

The media promotes its ideals of self-indulgence and instant gratification. When the fruit of that comes--cancer from smoking, rampant obesity, children the state winds up supporting, STD epidemics, etc., etc.--instead of owning up to the fact that they might just have been wrong, they'll shift the focus on a loosely-related symptom (e.g. the cigarette industry--THAT is ludicrous) rather than admit the "ideal" was wrong in the first place.

I really saw this with the Columbine High shootings. Those kids were the direct result of an increasingly apathetic world-view that avoids anything of real value and shirks responsibility for the sake of maintaining a look or a lifestyle (apparently the affluent parents had far more interest in maintaining their large houses than maintaining a quality of character in their sons). Instead of attacking that attitude, the media attacks a loosely-related symptom--guns.

Some people need to wake up to the truth that the key to weeding a garden is to pull them up by the roots, not the leaves.


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Exodus 22:2 -- Biblical precedent for home defense.
 
Its been getting saturation coverage here...why?
So they can scare you...CA is earthquake country, so they constantly tick off a littany of the earthquakes Cali has had this past century. And dig out their archived stories of the most recent quakes here in Cali. What these dorks don't understand is that most native Californians aren't afraid of quakes, thus these broadcasts irritate and bore us.
They say my area with its 4 faults is due for a 7.5+ within 30 yrs. Yawn.
The funny thing is that it is similar to guns: they trot out these "experts" who are calling for more earthquake safety requirements. When you consider the relevantly little loss of life in the SF quake of '88 and Northridge quake of '94, are the new regs implemented worth the additional 20% in building costs?
Use a quake...go to jail!!

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
The so called "Big One" has been trying to hit CA VERY SOON according to the media for the last 20 years. They must be using carbon dating.
 
Okay, I don't believe the death toll would be as high anywhere in the US, because we design our roadways & buildings to a higher standard of safety than almost anywhere else in the world (I'm a civil engineer, so I'm not just pulling this out of my hat - or anywhere else ;) ). To us, it's more important to minimize the likelihood of loss of life than to save money on building costs - to a point. Once you've decided what level of risk you're willing to accept, you try to design based on that - if you can't meet the standards with the budget you've got, it won't get built. That's not really true in Turkey - from the examples I've seen of Turkey (and many, many other countries), life is not held in as high an esteem as it is here, so safety standards are lower, if they really exist at all.

I think an extra 20% in building costs would seem cheap if you or someone you loved were in a cheaply constructed building during a quake. If companies can't handle the price of building in an earthquake zone, there are other places to build in the US. After all, business is about money, so businesses will go where it is most profitible to be. It's all a matter of priorities - money and lives & how much weight you put on each.

BTW, studies in Japan have shown that very tall buildings are LESS sensitive to quakes. Skyscrapers suffered a few broken windows, while the 10 story buildings around them collapsed. It seems that the tall buildings with a sturdy steel infrastructure dampen the vibration by allowing the shock waves to lengthen as they progress up the building, creating less overall stress in the structure. The shorter buildings can't flex enough to dampen the vibrations, so they collapse.

I noticed a lot of 5-10 story apartment buildings collapsed in Turkey...

I know it may come as a shock to you (that's sarcasm, there), but contractors & subs taking shortcuts is very common in the construction industry - at least I know it is here, I doubt it's any different in Turkey, but here we design for the variances, and our codes are stricter, too. Also, the very nature of construction means that every building/structure is unique, as are the conditions they are built under. In other words, every building, bridge, road, dam, etc. is a one-of-a-kind prototype, so the FOS (Factor of Safety) has to be high (think about that next time you go over a drawbridge or overpass - it's just a prototype).

And yes, there probably will be another "big one" out west. When, no one can tell you. 200 yrs. is nothing in geological time, so if you're expecting to be able to mark your calender and plan for it, fahgitaboutit. Nobody believed that Mt. St. Helens was gonna blow, either - that only happens in foreign countries, right? Right, just like Canadians are safe from gun violence because only American criminals have those things...

One of my college professors had a saying posted on his door. It went something like this:
Structural Engineering is the art and science of designing structures out of materials whose properties we cannot precisely know to withstand forces we cannot possibly predict, all in such a way that the general public remains unaware of our ignorance.
 
Structural Engineering is the art and science of designing structures out of materials whose properties we cannot precisely know to withstand forces we cannot possibly predict, all in such a way that the general public remains unaware of our ignorance.

Gee, thanks, Dave. I fee MUCH safer now. :(

Speaking of structural engineering, what's your take on the cone-shaped skyscraper being built in.. Japan, isn't it?

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
Dave...

My point was that costs have increased 20% since the last quakes. So, as yet these new regs haven't saved a single life. Add the 20% increased costs with standard permit costs and even remodeling, adding on has become cost prohibitive.
Secondly....I'll take care of mine and keep my money. Your arguement is standard liberal mantra..."if it saves one life". Well, you can't quantify it so keep your mitts off my checkbook

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
Coinneach,
Cheer up, life will kill ya eventually... ;)

Life has always been dangerous, it's nothing new. Think about the statement again, and then try to remember when the last time you heard of a building/bridge, etc., just falling down, for no good reason (not including earthquakes, floods, etc.). It just doesn't happen, and the better part of 6,000,000,000 people depend on some sort of engineered structure every day... In fact, structural engineers are about the lowest paid engineers out there, & I think that's largely because things so seldom do go wrong! I theink the general perception is that it can't be hard to design a bldg or bridge, because they never fall down!

US roadways (not bridges, just plain old roads and highways), on the other hand, are designed to function properly for 85% of the vehicle/driver combinations at the design speed (usually ~115% of the posted speed limit). So, roadways are designed to fail 15% of the time - so drive carefully!!! It's probably the most dangerous thing you'll ever do.

I don't know too much about the cone-shaped skyscraper. I've heard a little about it, but I haven't been following it. It seems like a sound idea to me, though. Round is the best shape, because it's less wind resistant (big consideration - even normal wind loads on a rectangular 30 story building can be incredible), and arcs are structurally stronger than straight lines, saving weight (the lighter they can build it, the taller they can go - somethings got to hold the whole thing up at the bottom). Tapered means the weight gets lighter and the structure should become more flexible towards the top (yes, skyscrapers are designed to flex under severe loading - very important for withstanding earthquakes) and the weight & stresses can be distributed out across the widening base, giving some additional side-to-side structural support. The pyramids are tapered structures made our of a relatively poor building material (sandstone), and they've held up okay. It's just expensive and hard to build anything round. That's why you don't see much of it - we can build perfectly adequate rectangular buildings, so why spend the extra $$ on research & specialized construction? It figures the Japanese would be the first to try it.

And usually, the first one, whatever it is, is wayyy overdesigned to compensate for whatever they didn't think of.
 
Think about the statement again, and then try to remember when the last time you heard of a building/bridge, etc., just falling down, for no good reason

Well, the Bridge of San Luis Rey comes to mind. ;)

Meanwhile, back on topic, I still find it odd that no one in the US media is screaming about banning buildings, suing the construction crews, "no one needs to live in a concrete building," &c ad nauseam.

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A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.
Vote Libertarian - For A Change.
 
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