A FUDish type hypo!

D

Dead

New member
Ok gonna make this quick....

You decide to take a day off work on day, to relax and sit around the house and do nothing... Your wife, is at work till atleast 6pm. Around 10am in the morning you hear some "noises" coming from the front of your house, it sounds like someone is breaking into your house. So you decide to grab a rifle, and setup a "camp" in a room, behind a closed door. You continue to hear atleast one person going through you house, from room to room. The sounds get closer to where you are, and this person(s) start to open the door to the room you are in, and you see them leading the way with a Pistol... You deside to open fire on this person, hitting them multiple times, BUT.........

As they stumble, dying, into the room you see that they are a cop, and their partner starts to fire through the door/walls at you. What do you do????

I ask this because of the post about the LA shooting, and a movie it made me remember seeing were a BAD cop (LA Metro) would rob houses, while on duty..... I do NOT remember the name of the movie. :(

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Dead [Black Ops]
 
Tactical education is a fine thing.

Did you challenge the folk verbally?

Did you call the cops first to report a
prowler?

Do you before you clearly identify your target?

Many things in this scenario would be clear with good course or reading a few good books.

If this actually happened, you probably are screwed if you survive it.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>this person(s) start to open the door to the room you are in, and you see them leading the way with a Pistol... You deside to open fire on this person, hitting them multiple times[/quote]

I hate to be inane about this but, look, you are a civilian in your house. You are not in a war zone.

You simply do not engage targets with lethal force without enganging them with verbal commands first.

If you do command them, "Stop and Identify yourself", one of two things will happen, 1) Person will act in a non threatening manner, i.e. they run away, or they begin to talk to you. Hostilities probably averted. 2) They act in a threatening manner, i.e. they fire at you. If you 'set up camp' then you should be ok.

If this truely is a bad cop robbing your house, you're screwed. And that's all there is to it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As they stumble, dying, into the room you see that they are a cop, and their partner starts to fire through the door/walls at you. What do you do????[/quote]

But to answer your question.

Shoot until the threat is no longer a threat.

(Especially because you have a rifle.)



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~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Hey it is just a hypo question..... I wanted the thoughts on this to be after it happened, as put forth above.

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Dead [Black Ops]

[This message has been edited by Dead (edited September 21, 2000).]
 
You're screwed. Regardless of who it was, it was an illegal entry and you were put in fear for your life, a good shoot, a good shoot to take the other one who was firing at you. Still, you are screwed.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
You should have called the police from the camp room so you can have some legal protection. I'm not sure you are required to verbally challenge anyone illegally in your home, but it would be wise as many burglars do it for the $$ and to get themselves killed so they might just leave. As for the situation youre in. Keep shooting till the threat is no longer a threat and then invest heavily in Vaseline stock as you will be certain to have considerable use for it with your new cell mate at the nearest club fed. Unfortunately, only COPS can claim that it was an accident. For us normal humans that is not acceptable.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
If we're talking after the fact here (not a "you should've done" thread)... you may as well keep shooting until the threat goes away. The crooked cop's crooked partner can't claim that they were working in an official capacity unless you're dead. A trial is better than a funeral.

I don't think you're necessarily screwed either. The official movements and actions of police officers are often well monitored and well documented events. In my limited dealings with police depts, an officer (a legitimate one) does not enter a house for any reason until several radio conversations have taken place and some sufficient backup has arrived. Even an event which would lead to an officer chasing someone into a house would be well known (via radio) to dispatch and many officers. In other words, the chief, the dept. and the prosecutors would be just as surprised to find a dead cop in your house as you were. Though you would certainly have a hard time, it would be just as difficult to disprove your side of the story. I am none of the above mentioned people but that’s my best guess.
 
Hey, go easy on Dead. He's just asking a "What If?" question to give us something to think about and for those with expereince in these type of tactical areas to offer some advise for the rest of us.

I would first call 911 on either a cell phone or a cordless -- something that I could carry around with me so that I was in constant communication with the operator.

I would then yell out in a loud, clear voice something to the effect that I was armed and prepared to defend myself and that the police were notified and on the way. Remember, everything you say to the 911 operator is being recorded.

If the person still continued to try to break in, it could be questioned first off, exactly what the LEO was doing there and if the answer comes back that it was a mistake, then it can be asked why he did not identify himself as a LEO when you made your warning.

Just as a side note, it's always a good idea to identify your target before shooting (your wife might have ripped her skirt and ran home for a quick change of cloths. Your child might have been sent home from school because there was a bomb scare, etc.) and a warning helps in the identification process.
 
FUD, at first I thought your last paragraph was unrealistic since Dead said the perp was "leading the way with a gun" and his wife or kids wouldn't be doing that.

But, it could still be your wife or kid if they normally carry a gun and didn't know you decided to take the day off. They might have seen movement in the house - you - and thought you were a burglar or worse. So the admonition to know who you are shooting at is very good advice, even if you see a gun or think you see a gun. If you're concealed well enough you'll still have the split second advantage of surprise if it turns out to be a bad guy.
 
Shoot.

What have you got to lose? You shot one cop, and the other one will probably keep shooting until you're dead and then claim that they heard shooting/smelled drugs/got an anoymous tip and did a legal entry and you opened fire.

VERBALLY CHALLENGE HIM?!?! Are you nuts!?! You have a tactical advantage: the element of surprise, and you want to give that up because the armed person who broke into your home might run away if you would just give him the chance.

Any similarity between your world and mine is purely coincidental.

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There are two types of men: those with guns, and those at their mercy.
 
You are screwed to an extent not often experienced by the average person. Few people will ever know what it feels like to be as screwed as you are. You are probably about to die. If you don't die, it doesn't matter what documentation there might be--you're going to be executed or spend your life in prison. Think about it. Your best-case scenario is to kill two cops. MOST people will not care a bit why you killed them or what business they had in your house. You will be a gun nut and a particularly violent, evil one at that. Your life won't be worth spit.

Does that help? ;)
I won't bother telling you not to do this, 'cause obviously it's just a little joke.....right? And FUD, you really are a pretty good sport.
 
Fud good reply, your learning perty good.
And what people wright here, I think helps us all.


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"Defiance"
And yet...it moves
(Galileo Galilie)

"Spay or Nuter your Socialist Pets"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dead:
Hey it is just a hypo question.....
[/quote]
Sorry Dead, i didn't mean that to be condescending. I was just pointing out that your scenario missed (what i believe to be) an important tactic.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikul:
VERBALLY CHALLENGE HIM?!?! Are you nuts!?! You have a tactical advantage: the element of surprise, and you want to give that up because the armed person who broke into your home might run away if you would just give him the chance.[/quote]

Let's see here...

...the armed person who is dressed as a peace officer broke into your house.

You've armed yourself with your favorite carbine, and are using your bed/dresser/nightstand/closit for partial cover. You have a 'bead down' on the target, who does not know your location/tactical status.

A verbal challenge changes nothing (unless, for some reason you cannot speak while you watch your front sight... :rolleyes: )

But what it does do is gain knowledge of intentions. KNOWLEDGE is what you don't have, and is what you need most in this situation.

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~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998



[This message has been edited by USP45 (edited September 21, 2000).]
 
USP45, I didnt take it like that, just wanted to define my position :D

I think "intentions" can be determined WITHOUT a verbal challenge..... I.E. someone breaking into your home, while you are there, and "searching" your home. The fact that they broke into your home in the first place would be enough to prove intent to me. Also after seeing a "weapon" in a ready postion that ALONE would prove intent, without question!

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Dead [Black Ops]

[This message has been edited by Dead (edited September 21, 2000).]
 
DEAD, I'm sorry but we can't take this stuff seriously unless FUD writes it. You'll have to send it to him and have him translate it into FUDISM!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>A verbal challenge changes nothing (unless, for some reason you cannot speak while you watch your front sight... )[/quote]

Now they know that you're home, and they have a good idea of where in the room to shoot. While before their guns may have been drawn as a precaution. Now they're ready.

Before they may have walked into the room and if you're stupid enough to wait that long, you still have a full second to shoot both of them before they know exactly where you are. That's enough time. Now they'll either enter more cautiously or just start shooting in the direction of your voice. I'd vote for the latter.

Do you think the police would employ this method? If a man walked into a police station with a gun drawn, he'd be turned into a carbon-based collander. No one would shout a warning and give the goon 2 seconds to shoot people.
 
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