A foreign perspective

C

Coinneach

Staff Alumnus
T'other night, I was at the shop waiting to see if CBI would allow me to buy a plinking rifle. At the other end of the shop was an older gentleman with an East European accent, being coached through the registration paperwork... er, excuse me, ATF4473.

"OK, sir," said the clerk, "You need to put down your social security number here..."

"Why you need that?"

"Because the feds won't approve you without it."

Old guy shook his head, sighed, and wrote down the number.

"Now, sir, we need your address here..."

"Why, so the police know where to find me when they decide to take guns?"

"Er, well..."

I wandered down to the fellow, who had a Remington 870 and a Taurus .38 lying on the counter. Hmm, interesting choices...

"Hi, where are you from?"

"Poland."

"You're into defensive guns, I see..."

"Yes, after being robbed twice, I decided that since criminal have gun, I better be armed too. Now I see this crap, where your government knows who I am, and what guns I own, and they decide if I can have them. How could you Americans let this happen?! Chust vait (accent getting heavier as his anger grows), one, two year, you be chust like Roosha and Chermany!"

"Hey, some of us are trying to put them back into their cage. Not enough, unfortunately. Too many gun owners fool themselves into thinking that the problem will go away."

"EEDEOTS! I see what happen when government have all guns and people have none! THEY KILL US!"

Hey, didn't Kofi say that other people don't want us to have guns?

(scratching head in confusion...)

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
I heard that!

I'd like to hear Oleg's thoughts on the matter. He grew up in the U of SSR, and I wonder what he thinks about all the attacks on our rights relating to arms.

Here's something to ponder: I spent a week in Switzerland last month, and discovered that, yes, everyone has a fully automatic rifle with ammunition at home. I also discovered that their equivalent to RKBA is coming under fire.

But guess where it's coming from? There are about 7,000,000 people living in that country. 1,000,000 of them aren't citizens. Most of the anti-gun sentiment comes from the foreigners.

Likewise, in this country, it seems that those who advocate gun control are a distinct minority (See the poll on http://www.pathfinder.com/time/polls/gunpoll.html) ), and are absolute strangers to the kind of government our Founders set up.

jth

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"Corruptisima republica plurimae leges." (The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.)
- Tacitus
 
My first thought on the matter is "fuxxxxxing basstaaaaarrds blam-blam-blam!" :(

My second, and slightly more reasoned thought, is that foreigners vary a lot. Even those from the same country have different opinion. However, most are very open to going shooting with me (an "American experience", I think). I hope we have more immigrants here...esp. the ones who have been on the receiving end of an AKMS.

Some foreigners, like the ones who escaped from Eastern Europe in the 50s-80s, know that we are playing for keeps. Some of them are scared and rather eager to stay armed.

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Remember, further, the not so unique Polish experience. Poland had not been independent from mid-18c to 1921 or so. They got decimated in '39-'45 by Soviets and Germans. Survivors from the Ploish Foreign Legion were disarmed and turned over to Stalin's crowd by the British. Most of those unfortunates died. Then Poland had the pleasure of suffering the Soviet presence a while longer. Moreover, Jewish and Gypsy "Polaks" got their share of misery twice, from the Poles as well as from their overlords. Makes one long for that last-ditch buffer between self and trouble.

I, for one, prefer my last-ditch tool to be a rifle and not a shovel. I am not alone in that sentiment.

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited December 13, 1999).]
 
As I am typing, Michelle and I are watching "Life is Beautiful." Well-done film. Quite a reminder of why I keep arms handy and in good order, with plenty of feed. Immigrants tend to have that abstract information reinforced by family histories which often include similar horror stories.
 
I am from India, and all civilian firearms need licensing. Whats more, fully automatic weapons are completely banned, and there is no licensing provision for them. The worst part is that one person is allowed to own only three firearms or less and each has to be different, that is,Revolver, Semiauto, Shotgun or Rifle. 9mm &.38 Spl are military calibers so civilians cannot own those, the same with .303 British, 7.62mm and 5.56mm.
The only way one can obtain a license is if you are very rich and influential and are able to show a reason to own firearms or if your a golfing buddy of the Police Commissioner. Thank the Lord I managed to get a license a soon a I turned 21 which is extremely difficult.
 
Strange isn't it how the truth can be found in such an unlikely place? If true (and I believe it to be), this is one of those stories that we would all do well to heed. I am reminded of an annoymous post, simple and to the point that settled the 9mm vs .45 debate once and for all in my mind. In the middle of a lot of this test and that test, this FBI story and that FBI story, there was this gem. "I saw the 9 and the 45 perform with the same depressing effectiveness in Viet Nam" no embellishment or explanation was asked or needed.

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CCW for Ohio action site.
Deliberatley Unarmed People (DUPs) are one thing, we demand the choice.
http://www.ofcc.net
 
By the way, on that stupid yellow form (4473)never put your ss#. It is optional. Never,never give any more personal info than is mandatory, and then still try not to give it.



------------------
From my cold dead hands.
 
Fourdiamonds, not putting down your SSN is a good way to get delayed or denied. Been there I have. Optional my fuzzy white butt. :(

Besides, with a name like mine, I'm not all that hard to find. :)

------------------
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Never been delayed or denied yet for lack of SSN...but the first time that happens, I will step up purchasing from individuals...better than ambushing opposition foot soldiers, for now.

The gradual process has its advantages, but they do allow us to react to the infringements and to anticipate new problems down the line. I'd say we are seeing only a small and early part of American mobilization for a long and drawn-out conflict.
 
I've never put my social on a yellow form and have never been delayed. Even if it means being delayed, I wouldn't put it on there. Don't give the enemy more info than is necessary.
 
Not putting your ss# down just gets you
extra attention and seperates you from the
"flock"- of - " ordinary" gun owners.
You get put on the "may have trouble with these people at some point in the future list."


[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited December 13, 1999).]
 
Anand,

Nameste Jii! Glad you joined us!

Your description of Indian gun control is quite chilling. We should learn from your experience.

Again, welcome!
 
coinneach
i never put down my ssn it is and will remain optional. sometimes my purchase's have taken an hour or so sometimes the instant in b/ground check lives up to it's name. one time the ffl called in for me and the lady at cbi asked him why i did not put ssn down i said in a voice loud enough for her to hear that is was opitonal (nope that one i waited 2 daze for) besides i can wait as i do own other's but for some 3min is to long as they do need a gun asap. so much for "rights" damn that constitution!!
 
ernest2 - Well, I always did like special attention and if I am on that list they need to change the name to people they WILL have trouble with.
 
hmmm , so your worried about putting your ss# .Let me tell ya'll what happened to me on my last purchase.After filling out the form the second time (wrong color ink from the ijit cashier), they called in to cbi. After I was ok'ed for the purchase, the young cashier the peeled the sticker containing the info of the gun (serial# model # caliber) and stuck it on the yellow sheet. When i asked why he was doing that he told me it was required.Needless to say, i tore up my check, tore up the yellow sheet, promptly walked out of the store and went buy the same gun somewheres else....Cuz
 
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