A few random questions about my new 617

B

Boz Mon

New member
I finished off a box of 525 rounds on my 617 today and I have a few questions. Firstly, I have heard of people who were shooting too fast, which causes the gun to heat up, and melt lead onto the inside of the barrel and cylinder. How do I know if the gun is getting too hot? I was feeling it after every cylinder of 10 rounds I did today and it was getting pretty warm, never hot though. I dont want to run into this problem.

The second question I have is in regards to trigger "staging." The owners manual warns against this, but I have seen many people on youtube doing this. It seems to be a good way to get your aim while shooting in double action.
 
It would take a great deal of effort to over heat your 617.
Take your time, don't spray and pray and you'll be fine.

Staging the trigger is not the beat practice for double fire revolver. You want a smooth continuous pull on the trigger. Try concentrating on trigger pull and it'll really improve your scores.

Your 617 should have a pretty smooth trigger already. The more you use it the better it will get and the better you will get.
 
Lead melts at around 620 degrees F. No way are you getting any gun even close to that by shooting it. I had a couple of these guns and they are great revolvers. I'd suggest you spend your time and valuable ammo in practicing shooting single action. Double action is fun once in a while but for the most part isn't really practical for hitting much of anything....unless you have a gun built for doing that. Keep the cylinder and barrel clean on this gun. 22lr has a lot of wax on the bullet and builds up pretty quickly which makes loading a little more difficult. Have fun and good luck shooting.
 
No worries about leading from shooting too fast. Those 617s typically have pretty tight tolerances, so keep the chambers clean, and wipe off the front of the cylinder and the rear of the forcing cone every so often.

Regarding staging, I consider it a bad habit. For one thing, when people stage a trigger, they're usually trying to "time" a perfect shot, which target shooters will tell you is futile. Ironically, that shot will often be worse, because the shooter yanked the trigger when everything looks good...now!!

Mentally commit to a good shot before starting your DA pull, not after. Then pull straight back smoothly with no yanking, through the shot.


NoSecondBest said:
Double action is fun once in a while but for the most part isn't really practical for hitting much of anything....unless you have a gun built for doing that.
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The OP's got a mighty fine gun for doing that. :cool:
 
Shooters who shoot fast double action have guns modified for that type of fire. I had Bill Davis build me a revolver many years ago that was made for that type of shooting. Twice while shooting at Sportsman's Team Challenge events I had to use that revolver when my custom centerfire was out of action. Both times my team and I fired a perfect score on the handgun event. With that gun you not only could, but you had to stage the trigger. I've shot enough revolver in competition to know that a stock S&W revolver isn't the best gun to use double action. It works, and you can gain some proficiency with it, but it's not built for that type of shooting.
 
NoSecondBest said:
I've shot enough revolver in competition to know that a stock S&W revolver isn't the best gun to use double action. It works, and you can gain some proficiency with it, but it's not built for that type of shooting.
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What competition are we talking about and in what way are they not built for it? Are they not built to handle the "fast" DA part or the "accurate" DA part?

S&Ws dominate in USPSA and IDPA revolver divisions, where fast DA shooting is the name of the game. Your association with Bill Davis suggests you're referring to PPC, where accurate DA shooting is the name of the game, many of the guns being custom target guns. Relatively speaking, that's pretty slow DA shooting, though. Likewise for Bianchi Cup.

As far as DA accuracy, it depends on one's requirements. If I were to formally shoot bullseye or silhouette with a revolver, yeah, I'd likely shoot SA using a tuned target revolver. If I were to shoot PPC or the Bianchi Cup with a revolver, I'd use a custom gun and shoot DA. But that DA "isn't really practical for hitting much of anything" is relative - that's the view of a competitive target revolver shooter commenting on the fine accuracy required for target DA shooting in formal competition, but stock S&Ws can be surprisingly accurate in DA for most other applications. Certainly, one should practice towards that, IMO. A good action job usually helps.
 
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As far as DA accuracy, it depends on one's requirements. If I were to formally shoot bullseye or silhouette with a revolver, yeah, I'd likely shoot SA using a tuned target revolver. If I were to shoot PPC or the Bianchi Cup with a revolver, I'd use a custom gun and shoot DA. But that DA "isn't really practical for hitting much of anything" is relative - that's the view of a competitive target revolver shooter commenting on the fine accuracy required for target DA shooting in formal competition, but stock S&Ws can be surprisingly accurate in DA for most other applications. Certainly, one should practice towards that, IMO. A good action job usually helps.
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That is correct. That's not stock out of the box. I guess my definition of accuracy, or anyone's definition of accuracy is relative. If I was aiming at a cow at ten feet I guess it would be good to go right out of the box. If I were aiming at 4"x4" plates at 25 and 35 yards under a tight time constraint it just wouldn't work.
 
I think one of the few problems I have heard of concerning these fine revolvers is the tight tolerances. Tight is good but it does require a bit of attention to keeping the front of the cylinder cleaned to avoid build up of crud. I have also heard of some having a problem with tight fit inside the cylinder which can be even tighter if not kept cleaned out.
Some have complained of the cylinder not turning after less than 100 rounds which I don't understand. I have run nearly 300 rounds in one session through mine without cleaning with absolutely no problems. Insofar as melting lead...seems very unlikely and have never heard of it causing a problem with any revolver.
 
NoSecondBest said:
If I was aiming at a cow at ten feet I guess it would be good to go right out of the box.
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Pshaw...any decent factory DA revo is certainly up to this task. If not, it's most certainly the shooter's deficiency.

NoSecondBest said:
If I were aiming at 4"x4" plates at 25 and 35 yards under a tight time constraint it just wouldn't work.
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IMO, a decent factory service-sized revolver in the hands of a good shooter ought to be able to print 3" DA groups @ 25 yards. Add in time constraints and match pressure, and, yes, a smooth action helps quite a bit. The 10-ring of an NRA Bullseye target is 3" across, and I understand some in timed and rapid fire clean the target. That's a pretty high bar, so in this case, if shooting TF/RF in DA with a revolver, one would at least need an über-smooth action.

At any rate, this is a thread veer, as none of this pertains to the OP, I think. Even if DA isn't ideal for fine match-grade accuracy, it's still a worthwhile pursuit on one's own.
 
A .22 rimfire needs a firm strike for consistent ignition. You can get a S&W DA trigger pull worked to a smooth and relatively light pull for a centerfire cartridge but a spring that light would not give you good ignition on a .22.

My Model 17 is pretty smooth but I have not bothered trying to run it with aftermarket springs. My .357 L frame has a considerably lighter pull but has been very reliable.
 
Interesting where these threads lead.

I think the OP would be loosing out if he went to single action only. The 617 is one of the best double action rimfire revolvers made.
Unless he gets to the higher levels of competition the stock 617 will serve him very well.

But for all we know the OP doesn't intend to get into competition just yet.
I get the impression that he is just starting out shooting this type of gun and it would be better for him to worry about the basics of shooting rather than how many tin cups he's going to accumulate.
 
I have fired a whole lot of DA in both .22 and .38 S&W revolvers and have used both the "pull through" and the "staged" technique. If I found the sights wandering off, partway through, I staged the trigger, else, I just pulled through. No difference in accuracy either way and I was competitive in matches firing DA (not necessarily a winner all the time, but fairly good). I fired DA because it gave me better control of the gun than I had in SA with a light trigger.

Jim
 
Yeah I have to agree with J K, I almost never shoot DAs single action and if staging means taking more time with the last of the trigger pull, then I stage if I need to. While I don't compete, I have shot a running jack rabbit in the head at 50+yds and a fork horn deer @ 120 paces standing still umm, the deer I mean, and me too, both DA and while the Jacks pretty much disappeared from eastern Idaho in the early eighties and I got tired of dragging deer corpses out of the mountains, I still put thousands of rounds thru my DA revolvers.

To the OP, I have shot more rounds thru my 617 between cleanings than I should have. Resulting in pushing large amounts of lead out of the barrel and the front of the cylinder window, etc. It does need cleaning more often than my M-17, I even sent it back to S&W thinking there was a problem. I got it back with a letter saying everything checks out, and a personal note encouraging me to clean it in a timely manner, which I do.
 
Regarding staging, I consider it a bad habit. For one thing, when people stage a trigger, they're usually trying to "time" a perfect shot, which target shooters will tell you is futile. Ironically, that shot will often be worse, because the shooter yanked the trigger when everything looks good...now!!

Mentally commit to a good shot before starting your DA pull, not after. Then pull straight back smoothly with no yanking, through the shot.
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I'm no fan of "staging" a da trigger pull either; for all the reasons MrBorland so succinctly articulated.


I fired DA because it gave me better control of the gun than I had in SA with a light trigger.
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I can't speak to any one shooter's individual experience and level of expertise, but I will say that, as a long-time Bullseye shooter, I know you won't find many serious competitors on the line who use a revolver (and, sadly, there aren't many of us who do so anymore) that fires one in the da mode, staged or not. Most serious Bullseye shooters using a revolver will fire it in the sa mode through all of the three stages of fire: slow-fire, timed-fire and rapid-fire. And they do so simply because their scores are better when they shoot single-action.
 
I've had a 617 for about 25 years now and put thousands of rounds down the tube. Never, ever got hot enough to "melt" the lead bullet, hot enough you couldn't touch the barrel......................... but melt lead????:rolleyes:
 
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