A Custom Build Conversation

S

Stats Shooter

New member
I have decided to build an F-CLASS TR rifle in .308. I already shoot F-Class AR 10 (600 yard slow fire) but want to begin shooting in the 600 yard and 1k TR class which is limited to .308 or .223, gun no more than 18 lbs w/scope and folding bipod.

I have never done a custom bolt gun build, but I am very familiar with bolt action rifles and I have built 2 AK 47's and 2 AR's plus done trigger and stock work on bolt action rifles so I'm not a complete dunce.

But, there are some things about bolt action rifles that I am ignorant about. The first is on the necessity of a quality action. Do I need to get a $1,300 Defiance Action or something similar? I mean are theythat much better than a remmington 700 action?

The next question is, if I get a remmington 700 action and put a Bartlein barrel on it, do I need to have it tried and blueprinted? I guess I'm asking if that will make a difference.

I want to try and actually win some of my local and regional matches so if it gets me another 1/8 MOA I consider it worth it. But I'm trying to get educated before dumping money into a custom rifle.
 
"...need to get a $1,300..." No, but you do need to decide on how much money you want to spend on the complete rifle with sights.
"...another 1/8 MOA..." Does group size make any difference at all with your AR? Considering the target dimensions.
.308 TR class limits your bullet weight too.
 
T.O'heir
In my AR-10 I have a heavy fluted barrel, hammer forged, chrome lined, and chrome bolt...It's also piston driven with a Swarovski scope. Using 175 Grain match kings and IMR 4064 I average 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards and about 1 MOA at 600 if I do my part and the conditions cooperate.

But in the bolt action classes, 1 moa at 600 is not good enough....Got to hold 1/2 moa or very close on a calm day to compete. It's hard enough with 20 mph winds and mirages but if the rifle won't punch the X if you do everything thing else right then I have no chance.

As for my budget, I would like to stay at or below $2500 for the rifle....That's why I want to shoot F TR so I don't have to try and compete in the arms race.
 
You can buy a Savage Target for under $800 (have to check)

Comes with the Savage Acu Target trigger.

Most are single shot but there is one magazine type.

At that point you have to shoot it to see if the barrel will do what you want.

Worst case you change the barrel but Savage Factory team has been very competitive with their factory guns.

You will shoot a barrel out eventually and then comes the cost to replace.

Stocks are laminates with various grip types. Boyd's and those are solid.

You can also buy target actions for Savage, then build get your own stock and barrel of choice. They are as much as a whole target gun.

That said, you get a better deal buying the whole gun as you get the target stock and a starter barrel with the target acu trigger (down to 8 oz pull)

Remington 700 is vastly overrated. Ho hum action, nothing special and you have to buy a good trigger for it out of the box. Lots of recalls, I still can't figure out how it got to be so "renowned". Its ok, but just that, ok.
 
I don't know if you can build a full custom "competition" rifle for less than $2500. It won't take long to eat up the $$$ building something for actual competition. I went $1600 into a pretty simple Savage build:

$280 Action shipped & FFL transfer, from Northland Shooters Supply
$268 Barrel shipped, from Savage-Barrels.com, McGowan Heavy Varmint taper 11 degree crown
$40.00 Bolt Handle from Stockade Gunstocks
$32.50 SS Recoil Lug from Stockade Gunstocks
$7.50 Bolt Lift Kit from Stockade Gunstocks
$100 Competition Trigger from Sharp Shooter Supply
$380 HS Stock & bottom metal shipped found used on Savage Shooters Forum
$299 Scope found only @ Midway USA, Weaver GS Tactical GS 3-10X40
$50 Rings from Midway USA, Leupold QRW Med rings
$40 Base from Evolution Gun Works
$145 Gunsmithing

Total cost for original build was $1642. Obviously I wasn't building for F/TR so I bought parts I could pretty much bolt together on my own. You can buy a new Savage F/TR rifle for less than $1500 and probably start competing right away.

As far as $1300 for a custom action that's seems to be about the going rate. There are some cheaper and some more expensive, but by the time you properly blueprint you're over $900 most times in a M700 action and that doesn't include a good trigger. Jewels cost $250 so that has you $1100+ into a M700 action.

To thread, chamber, and install a barrel will run $300-400 not including barrel. So add in $800 total for the barrel and work you're at $1900+ for a barreled action. That doesn't leave much room for a good stock for competition.

I'm not saying you can't get it done cheaper, but you'll probably have to cut some corners. You might try checking places like The Shooters Corner for a used rifle that'll help you get into some quality parts at a discout.
 
Mississippi, what you should do is go to a match and see what everyone is shooting. If your regional match shooter is winning with custom action and you can see that scores vs what everyone else is using and scores. I'm just guessing but most F-Class is a classification shoot
 
Old Roper: Mississippi, what you should do is go to a match and see what everyone is shooting. If your regional match shooter is winning with custom action and you can see that scores vs what everyone else is using and scores. I'm just guessing but most F-Class is a classification shoot
Click to expand...

Old Roper, i plan to do exactly that. I do shoot the 600 yard slow-fire AR-10 Division right now (which is not technically F-Class but is NRA sanctioned). And I am going to observe what they use on the 600 yard, and 1k yard shoots. But, I have some friends who already shoot 1k F-Class open and F-Class TR and they have shown me what they use, and what i will be up against.

The consensus is this: If you want to win consistently, you need a cartridge that bucks the wind decently and a gun consistently capable of 1/4 MOA...and then of course you, the shooter, needs to be capable of 1/4 MOA. In F-Class TR, you are for practical purposes, limited to 1 cartridge (.308). But the rifle options are extensive. And you can spend $5,000 on a rifle and not do much winning which is what I want to avoid.
 
If the 308 groups is where you plan to shot then the Savage Target guns would really be the place to start.

While Taylorfoce 1 has a point, what the Savage also gets you is a very good trigger. I don't claim its the end to be all, but having shot their Varmint one, with an 8 oz set its a very good start.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog...s/Savage/Savage+Centerfire/Savage+12+F/TR+308

$1170 at most and a scope and you are where you can start to find out if you can do that. My take is that this is a 3/8 guaranteed gun. Savage has $75 discounts regularly and that drops it to $1100.

Next step would be a button or cut rifled barrel Savage pre fit if you can compete at that level.

If you are improving but not there, go with the button rifle barrel and then spend the money on the best barrel if get to that level.

With the Savage you have the choice to do the barrels yourself with $150 in equipment or have a gun smith do it. Its so easy that a smith should not charge more than $50 if you supply the barrel.
 
Mississippi said:
you can spend $5,000 on a rifle and not do much winning which is what I want to avoid.
Click to expand...

All you can ask of your gear is that it not hold you back. Going the extra distance to actually win, OTOH, is up to the nut behind the trigger. ;)


FWIW, my attitude about match gear when starting out (as a total newbie or new to a piece of gear) is to observe and do a bunch of research, then get what's considered a pretty "standard" setup. It ain't gonna be cheap, but it won't likely be the most expensive, either. Either way, it won't hold you back, which, again, is all you can ask of your gear.
 
Mississippi, I shot BR with 6ppc so do understand about cost and getting competitive. The Kelbly Panda action for my light rifle is now $1150. and when I quit I got about 75% of what it cost me to build that rifle and rifle did win little. If you have known gunsmith build he should have client base that might be interest in that rifle if and when you decide to sale.
 
The used rifle route is an option. The only thing that really wears out on a rifle is the throat/barrel. So if I could find one set up how I want it that's an idea.
 
Ahh as I call it, the nub of the rub.

People with the rifle I listed know what its value is. Once in 100 years you might stumble on one that gets into the wild.

Call it $100-150 less than the Savage lowest used you can find (Gunbrokers)

Why are they selling it?

Barrel gone? They do not have to divulge or speculate on barrel and there is no way for you to say it is or is not right.

You could get a Stephen Mathews muzzle wear and throat eriotion gauge for $64 (308) and check it though the TE would need a calbibaration on a new gun.

So, worst case, someone shot it a lot (just as its intended) and its now a 3/4 inch gun. Not shot (pun) but not what you want. Maybe it always was a 3/4.

$300 barrel makes pretty sure it is good. $400 barrel makes sure it is. We are no up over what you would pay for new by a significant amount

Gunsmith, another $50 to 100.

If you are not shooting iron sights, then glass is going to run you $1200 plus.

You just can get into this low cost. 2K is about the minimum. Germain Salazare? his probably run $6000.

My lowest cost setup is close to $1800 with glass.

I got the stock, acu trigger and receiver in a package. $450. Barrel was $300. Glass was 1100. I don't need that good glass now, but if I shot 1000 I would. It can move gun to gun so its not a fixed cost on that gun but that puts it in perspective for what it would be if I did want to shoot 1000.
 
I am giving the Savage target action a real look.
... Especially because it comes with the accutrigger. That's about $550 total. The stocks at sharpshootersupply look promising, $400. Then a barrel, $400. Then miscellaneous gunsmithing and parts, let's say $350.
That's kind of what I was looking at.
Then about $1500-2000 for the Glass.

So total package, about $4k
 
There have been some real negative reviews coming out of SSS.

Looks to me that you are looking at $1800 vs $1100 complete with stock, trigger, barrel that will shoot good as mission requires.

Certainly no problem with that but its higher than the package.

Keeping in mind that long range shooters are far more involved in doping wind and conditions vs 1/4 inch groups.

Long range shooters don't clean guns nearly as much as the 300-600 yds guys, it doesn't pay.

Several variations of that Savage Target setup with stock options.
 
I've purchased several parts from SSS in the past. I email them tell them what I want and tell them to call me for CC number. I always get a call back and I get my parts in a timely manner if they were available. I've never had an issue with SSS parts they're some of the best you can get for Savage rifles. However, I'll agree his reviews haven't been great of late. I probably wouldn't use him for any gunsmith work.
 
I started before the Savage factory F guns came out.
BVSS-S single shot .308.
Replaced overrated Accutrigger with Jard.
Filled holes in butt and mag well in generic laminated stock with lead shot in epoxy, glass bedded action. 20 MOA scope base, Leupold 8-25. Harris.
Shot for a while on HP targets. Then they cut the target size in half and the stock barrel was no longer good enough, no matter the load.
DIY PacNor barrel put me into the smaller target.

The factory F rifles are said to be quite good, the factory team did well with them when new.

But time has moved on and you can probably do better.
 
I'm going to mostly stick to answering your questions and leave the "custom" or "factory" to you...

But, there are some things about bolt action rifles that I am ignorant about. The first is on the necessity of a quality action. Do I need to get a $1,300 Defiance Action or something similar? I mean are they that much better than a remmington 700 action?
Click to expand...

On the second question...Yes. But these are differences in tolerances and concentricity/parallelism that you may not be able to shoot. The choice comes down to taking a factory action, and having it "trued" by a gunsmith- or one of the 700 clones that are, presumably, manufactured to similar (much tighter) tolerances than a 700 factory action.

The next question is, if I get a remmington 700 action and put a Bartlein barrel on it, do I need to have it tried and blueprinted? I guess I'm asking if that will make a difference.
Click to expand...

In keeping with my first answer, it will be yes. Of course- it depends on your 700 action. Some, are "better" than others. Remember, we're talking about tolerances measured in fractions of a human hair- and mass production aimed at meeting a price point.

Do those two objectives sound compatible, to you?

I want to try and actually win some of my local and regional matches so if it gets me another 1/8 MOA I consider it worth it. But I'm trying to get educated before dumping money into a custom rifle.
Click to expand...

I think you've answered your own question, here. You don't just want to compete- you want to win. Take a walk down the firing line at the next shoot and see what the winners are using. Odds are, you won't see a Savage (or Rem) factory rifle in the bunch.

You also need to note that a custom rifle at this level isn't just a trued action and a Brux barrel- it goes well beyond that into custom chambering/throating designed specifically to the bullet and seating depth you'll use- sometimes even custom ground dies. Reloading, goes to an entirely different level of consistency than most of us "casual" shooters use.

Here is a good read, somewhat dated by I think the principles still apply.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek031.html

His advice answering the third question-
Invest in an accurate rifle
Click to expand...

The old adage "buy once, cry once", would seem to apply here.
 
If I were you, I would get a Savage 12 FT/R from Grabagun for $1128.

Then get an TPS aluminum rings and bases.....$200


Then get a Nightforce 8-32x56 benchrest scope c111 for about $1300.

For $2600 + setup accessories, that gets you on the line and likely won't hold you back for a while. At some point, I feel you may want to restock, but if it fits you and you feel comfortable, you won't want to.

While a trued up Savage will never feel smooth like a custom, it should shoot like one due to the floating bolt head.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top