A case for single action shooting

T

Trooper Joe

New member
When I joined the Michigan State Police in 1966, we were trained to shoot our Smith and Wesson revolvers (both K and J frame models) in single action mode only. We used standard bullseye targets in the “Camp Perry” style course of fire.

(All troopers were issued the heavy barrel model 10)



(Starting in the late 70’s, if you shot distinguished expert, you were issued a model 67 with the State Police logo on it.)



About 1969, we started to transition to “combat style”, double action shooting. However, they actually trained us to use a sort of staging method of trigger control for increased accuracy. In a very short time, and after a number of accidental discharges using this staging method, they transitioned to a consistent complete double action trigger pull with out staging. The also stressed the “double tap” style of shooting at a threat.

My daughter joined the State Police in 1987 and that time they were training to never use single action style shooting with the still being used revolvers. In 1989, MSP transitioned to Sig Sauer 226 9mm da/sa and stressed to not use the single action for the first shot (several ad’s occurred with the old time Troopers cocking the hammers of their 229’s like they were used to with their revolvers).

After being retired for many years (since 1989) I am really having a problem with this insistence on double action shooting only with both modern and older double action revolvers. (My daughter still cringes when she sees me using a revolver in a single action mode. However, she just admitted to me that when she qualified with the off duty gun issued in the 90’s which was one of the hammerless S&W J frames, she stagged the trigger to get a perfect score.)

I just watched a video about one of the new S&W Classic model 19’s. This gun has fantastic target, adjustable sights which are about useless with double action shooting. The presenter admitted that he could get much better groups using the single action mode and seemed clueless why he couldn’t do it in double action.

I submit that all single/double action revolvers should be shot single action unless you need to get off a fast round for defense at a close distance. If you are pointing your revolver at a threat to get him to stand down, then of course it should not be cocked.

If you are using your sights, I assume that the threat is no longer at a close distance and now you should be using the single action mode for accuracy.

These presenters on various videos about single/double action revolvers complain that revolvers would not be their first choice for concealed carry primarily since they only hold 6 (or 5) rounds. I believe they should loose the “spray and pray” mentality of most modern shooters and get back to basic accuracy concepts we embraced when I came into police work.

Just some thoughts

Trooper Joe
 
Several threads on Japanese police lately.
They carry the S&W 360J, a contract version of Chief's Special Airweight.
They are taught to shoot two handed single action, cocking with the off thumb.
 
For me double action without staging. It was a bit weird at the beginning, but it has become natural with some purposeful training. Actually the weirdest thing is to totally let go of the trigger after each shot; a habit to correct from shooting semi autos.

Single action for bullseye match only.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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IF you look at the history of DA revolvers and their use, (and in particular use by military and police) you'll find a long period of time when the DA feature was essentially considered an "emergency use" thing intended for situations where the priority was maximum speed at point blank range.

The early DA revolvers and most nations military revolvers up through WWII generally had DA trigger pulls that range from meh to horrid, and some are in the "takes three men and a boy" heavy.

The US military revolvers were the big exception, since they were essentially military contract versions of the civilian guns, and while the outside finish might have been for military durability, the internals were made to the generally high quality of the civilian guns.

And, along with this was the training of the era, and as the OP noted, the training to shoot one handed, single action, then later two hands but still mainly SA carried on for even longer.

Now, and for a long time, its been proven that adequate and even exceptional work can be done firing DA, with proper training and sufficient pratice.

THAT being said, SA shooting is much easier for most to master, and there are a lot of handgun shooting applications beyond duty/service use and self defense.

or bullseye matches.

I'm not a match shooter. I shoot recreationally, and for hunting and pest/predator control. Situations where speed of fire and repeat fire are not the primary concern, accuracy is. So I shoot very little DA. I think its a nice thing to have and if you train with it, you can do well, and it may be the best way to shoot for what you do with a handgun. But its not the only acceptable way to shoot a handgun all the time for every purpose. For me, at any rate.
 
I found when I shot bulleyes course, my score was better when I singled-action the hammer. this was with a M15-3 and m17-2.

Even on the bowling pins tables, with my J-frames and M15-3.

Also, did the pins with the 1911 and M39-2
 
I pretty much shoot DA at least 90%+ of the time. For me handguns serve only One useful purpose, SD. So I’ve learned to pull through on the trigger pull with full release reset. I shoot all my handguns into a six inch circle as fast as I can pull the trigger out to ten yards. My eyes and steadiness don’t work so well for bullseye shooting SA anymore. I do still dig out my model 14 and a box of wadcutters when I want to look good at the range once in a while.
 
If am wanting slower deliberate and more accurate, am using sa. Also another that practices quicker da up close with a revolver. Find both to be useful skill sets. Unfortunately my skill sets need repolishing.
 
Trooper Joe said:
I submit that all single/double action revolvers should be shot single action unless you need to get off a fast round for defense at a close distance.
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In the event of needing to get a fast round off I hope you have sufficiently practiced double action shooting otherwise there's a good chance your going to jerk the trigger and not hit what you're aiming at.
 
I'm not a match shooter. I shoot recreationally, and for hunting and pest/predator control. Situations where speed of fire and repeat fire are not the primary concern, accuracy is. So I shoot very little DA. I think its a nice thing to have and if you train with it, you can do well, and it may be the best way to shoot for what you do with a handgun. But its not the only acceptable way to shoot a handgun all the time for every purpose. For me, at any rate.
Click to expand...
That's me as well. Don't see the the need for DA in anything I do. Only reason I own a .44 Special Bulldog is for the nice size for concealed carry (which isn't often). In the woods (for whatever reason) of course it is open carry SA. Same with the range. Obviously each of us has different purposes for revolvers. Personal thing.
 
I have better than 50 DA revolvers most target models from 22 to 45. I can’t recall firing anything but the 22 DA a couple times. I thumb hammer instinctively.
 
Drm50 said:
I have better than 50 DA revolvers most target models from 22 to 45. I can’t recall firing anything but the 22 DA a couple times. I thumb hammer instinctively.
Click to expand...

My thoughts on posting this thread are that many current shooters are failing to experience the beauty of shooting a Smith and Wesson revolver in the single action mode.
 
I shoot DA revolvers nothing but DA. The longest shot I've had to take is 35 yards, but nobody was shooting back.
When I shot for score for a Massachusetts carry permit, with department-supplied revolvers, we shot single action at seven yards, then double action at fifteen, which is, of course, bass ackwards, but about what I'd expect in Massachusetts.
 
When I want to hit precisely where I aim, at any range to 200yds, (and you need to do that for small targets,) I shoot SA.

IF I needed to hit COM fast, and at short range, (and, very short range) I'd probably shoot DA (if I had a DA gun).

I don't mind people telling me how, why, and when DA is the better choice, but I do get irritated by extremists telling me how, if I shoot SA, I'm going to die, DIE, DIE! :eek:

Actually have had people say that..
people say all kinds of s....stuff :rolleyes:
 
IMO, the well-rounded revolver shooter will be proficient with both the SA and DA triggers, and will shoot whichever is most appropriate for the circumstance.

FWIW, my standard for "good" (but not outstanding) shooting is an honest and consistent 3" 5-round unsupported groups from a good-quality service-sized handgun under no time constraint. Revolver shooters should be able to do this in single- and double-action. Just pick up your gun and shoot your best 5. Take all day if you need to, but make them your best 5. And no "fliers" allowed.
 
If you go back in time, Chic Gaylord favored having SA available for the hard shots.

Even though John Henry Fitzgerald was prone to mutilating revolvers by chopping out the front of the trigger guard, sawing off the barrel, and bobbing the hammer; he checkered the top of the hammer so that he could start the hammer back with the trigger and then get a grip on the hammer to cock it for the long shot.

Seems that GIGN preferred to shoot their MR73s single action to take out a terr with one precise shot instead of hosing him with half a dozen magnums.
 
When shooting revolvers I like having the ability to use single action mode for when a precise shot is needed and I have the time to make such a shot.

For all other purposes I'll shoot double action.

As for spray and pray I think that's always been a thing whether it be with revolvers or semiautos. The only difference is that with the revolvers you run out of ammo sooner.
 
I go both ways.

(not that there's anything wrong with that) ;)

M66-targets.jpg
 
I shoot everything SA. I grew up with SA revolvers. Cocking the hammer is second nature. I do it without thinking about it. No, I'm not proficient shooting DA nor do I want to be. I only own three DA revolvers. I don't know how many SA's I own.
 
Practicing with a Ruger SP101 in double action made me realize that I need a lot of work on DA, but it significantly helped with trigger control on every other handgun I own.
 
Personally, whether it is one of my K-22, 38s or 357s, at the range they are for fun and trying to be as accurate as I can, so SA all the way for me. These are not defense guns; I have other semis for that
 
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