A (Brit) revolver round questioin.

W

wogpotter

New member
I was watching one of the "extras" CD's in the "Sean Connery James bond collection" Collectors edition set & kept seeing a double crimped rimmed pistol case:eek:

Really, it seemed to be about a .38 rimmed strait wall case with a big round nose lead bullet, possibly a .38-200? But it was double crimped. There was a conventional cannelure crimp, but in front of this there was a set of (3) punch crimps!
Anyone ever heard of double crimped Brit revolver rounds? & why?
 
The three punch marks, called a "stab crimp" was used on military ammunition intended to be used in revolvers. The intent was to keep recoil from pulling the bullet forward on rounds in the cylinder. The US did the same with the .45 ACP during WW I:



The case often had a heavy cannelure at the base of the bullet to prevent bullet set-back.

Bob Wright
 
Was it FMJ?

And are we talking about Sean Connery BEFORE James Bond? Like Zardoz?

He used a .455 Webely in that movie.

Deaf
 
And are we talking about Sean Connery BEFORE James Bond? Like Zardoz?

He used a .455 Webely in that movie.
Click to expand...

A Webley-Fosberry to be precise. The blanks used didn't have enough recoil to work the action, so Connery had to cock it manually between each shot.

However, it seems unlikely that footage from Zardoz would be in the Sean Connery James Bond Collection CD.

BTW, Zardoz was released in 1974. Connery had already made 6 Bond films by then and only made one after it.
 
No he wasn't using it at all, it was a prop in the "extras" section of the James Bond collection, Sean Connery set. They were in the "Thunderball" extras DVD, just sitting on a table with other "Spy gadget stuff".
They seemed to be lead round nose .38 which is why I was thinking 38/200 might be the round.
 
The guard commander carried one. In our unit, Royal Signals, a .200g round nose lead bullet!

I came across an Enfield (in an expert witness job I had one time in Toronto) a Jamaican posse had picked up two of them, no ammunition was available, war time production, only two groves!

Ammunition was made out of 9mm rimless rounds. Using a lock wrench, adjusted to crimp the barrel of the cartridge, and then pressing it into the cylinder, with a vise, not the most accurate of weapons, but it worked!

The posse rented them out, $500.00 deposit, if you fired it? You had just bought it.

The case was the murder of a little girl, named Brianna. Made me sick.
 
Zardoz was 1974. Long after 'Bond'. Bond didn't carry a .38/200 either.
A .38 rimmed, strait wall, case with a big, round nose, lead, bullet can be a .38 Special.
No Jamaica posses up here. Just the odd gang with Trudeau the Elder's imported Jamaican criminals(he opened the immigration gates when he saw he wasn't going to be re-elected at one point. His communist buddy, Michael Norman Manley, was PM in Jamaica and promptly emptied his jails. Just like Castro did.) as members.
 
Bond didn't carry a .38/200 either.
Click to expand...
I never said he did, ever, anywhere. But he might have! In one of the later books "No Deals, Mr Bond" he gets "an old Webly" revolver from "Big thumb Chang" while in Hong Kong. It might well have had .38-200s in it.:D

For reference Sean Connery & James Bond are emphatically NOT carrying, or even in the picture where the cartridge appears. Its just sitting on a table with other stuff.:rolleyes:

The image was in the add on specials regardless of accuracy, even within its own frame of reference. The bond movie stills are terrible for firearms accuracy anyway as Connery/Bond frequently carries a Walther LP53, a .177" air pistol, in the stills.

The case looks too short & fat for a .38 Spl, but the exposed part of the bullet is longer than the case. Even those shown by Bob Wright are longer-looking! His .45 rounds UMC 17 & 18 in the earlier post has the crimp though!
 
Last edited:
No, 'fraid not, the cases are really "stubby" with a long (lead colored) round nosed bullet! I wish I could get some kind of screen capture.
 
I sure like that Western 200 (38-200)grain .38 S&W bullet in the picture Bob.

If it got past 600 fps it would have made a fair stopper.

And well Bond may not have used a .38 S&W, but Indiana Jones did!

Deaf
 
I can't help but believe we are talking about the dotted line like indentations about half way down the old WW ( or was it the UMC cartridges? ) .38 SPL . I have seen that question come up before on the same matter, of people mistaking the line for a crimp or one time thinking it was a bullet stop when the cartridges were being loaded. Don't know why they pressed that line there but it is not a crimp nor a bullet stop.
 
Nope not them either. I have some .38 Spl rounds with that but the crimp I'm thinking of is the same as the two .45's posted earlier. The lower crimp is a single, unbroken line with 3 "center-punched" dots right above it. The case is also shorter/fatter than a .38 Spl. Bear in mind I'm guessing size to an extent as there is nothing to give scale in the original. Think of something the same general shape as a .45 auto rim.

(Image (c) wogpotter 2011)
DSCF0119_zps0vvtende.jpg
 
Last edited:
Rjay:
I can't help but believe we are talking about the dotted line like indentations about half way down the old WW ( or was it the UMC cartridges? ) .38 SPL . I have seen that question come up before on the same matter, of people mistaking the line for a crimp or one time thinking it was a bullet stop when the cartridges were being loaded. Don't know why they pressed that line there but it is not a crimp nor a bullet stop.
Click to expand...

The 200 gr. bullet of Remington's police load had the same profile as the 158 gr. bullet and could not be identified visually, as could the Winchester loading. So Rem-UMC placed the knurled band on the case for identification.

Bob Wright
 
Well, here are a few old British cartridges, any one of which could have had the crimps/stabs you describe at one time or another:




Bob Wright
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top