A bit of an ethics question.

R

Rotorhead

New member
Lots of sage advice given around these parts, hopefully I can gain a little without offending. What are your thoughts on early scouting of game from aircraft. We occasionally take some guides looking for big animals and the out of state hunter who has heavily invested in their trip. Any problems? State law here says this can't be done the same day or day prior to actually hunting.

What about GPS Lat Lon? I have a brother who is always coming up with, how do I say it, creative income ideas. (get rich quick deals) That thinks hunters would pay to get a digital photo with lat lon of animals in their game unit, before they even leave their home state.

Please give me some feedback, flame if you must I'm a big boy.

Thanks,
 
My dad and his hunting buddy scouted by airplane in the 60's. I don't see anything wrong with it. They only did it once though, I think because of the cost and the limited results. Of course, for an out-of-state hunter, it wouldn't be that much of an added cost.
 
Off the cuff, I don't have a problem with the idea of providing the lat/long. The hunter is saved a bunch of time rousting around areas where the animals aren't "at home" to visitors, but he still has to hunt and find. After all, the lat/long is merely where they WERE, and is only the center-point of an area.

I think ethics comes into play by not "flooding a zone" with a whole bunch of hunters.

It's one thing for a party of two or three hunters to get within a mile or three of where game were seen. It's something else to have 30 or 50 to go pouring through the woods...

Art
 
I don't see a problem with it either. Here today, gone tomorrow - elk move around quite a bit, .... depending on weather & mood.

Hunting pressure usually gets the critters moving anyway.
 
Aerial recon...
Tough to do.
Tough to do safely.
Tough to do without spookin game.
And if observed spookin, very expensive an tough on your freedom.

And, unless doin it on a daily basis to establish patterns; worthless.

Sam
 
I expect your brother is native to the hunting area or has lived there a long time. One thing he is not taking into account is that most of the flatlanders that come out west to hunt are serious hunters. The hunt longer and harder than 99% of residents and their success shows. I would venture a guess that VERY few flatlanders would bite on this hook.


A side note:

A similar approach is used on some of the indian reservations in northern NM. It differs as the pilot will radio the guide into the animal. If the guide is too far away the pilot will harass the animals until they hole up. Another technique is to take the guide and client up for the spotting. When an animal is selected it is buzzed and harrassed. If buzzed continually an elk will hole up under a large tree or in some heavy cover, and still be there several hours later when the guide and "hunter" return. This is not a sporting endeavor IMO.

This ^^^^^ is NOT speculation or hearsay BTW.
 
I dunno 'bout that (non-res hunting harder), HSmith. Can't say I'm too pleased with some of our res hunters, but we get our share of non-res that are pretty funky.
 
Having been there and done that I can tell you that Aerial spotting is highly overrated. On Elk it doesn't work real well becuase they move around to much. And unless you've got your stuff wired tight it can be real dangerous.
 
I don't have a problem with the ethics. I just doubt that it will be real effective. OTOH, that doesn't mean your brother couldn't make some money selling the photos to prospective hunters. If you don't believe me, take your favorite hunting supply catalog and thumb through it. How many goofy contraptions do they sell in there every year? Would you consider buying them? Probably not but someone is buying them :D .
 
Thank you folks, FWIW you guys are pretty much spot on from what I have seen. Elk move ALOT especially during the rifle seasons when we have high pressure around here. I think it is nice to know where the big guys are (or are not) if thats what your after though. Same goes for animals like big horn.

As to the Indian reservation stuff I couldn't say, most of the things I hear of what happens on reservations seems a little off to me. Some probably true, some probably stretched a bit.

The animals here don't seem to spook too bad, lots of them don't even move. Flew by a small pond the other morning with 4 nice bulls standing on the edge with reflections on the water. What I wouldn't have given for a camera! Any way I made a couple of passes and they just watched me go by. Almost a religious experience in my book. I'll never forget it.

As for the danger I guess we all choose our poison, personally I think there is as much media bias with aviation as there is with firearms. 50000 +- killed a year in cars and its no big deal. One aircraft goes down and its front page. I'm also lucky enough to have a father with over 25000 hrs flying here in the mountains to learn from.

Anyway thanks for your perspective folks. Hunt safe
 
When I was flying I would "scout" which ponds/areas etc. the ducks were in the day before the season opened. If they were in the marshes and you went to the basin you were 15 miles away from them and vice versa.
 
A similar approach is used on some of the indian reservations in northern NM. It differs as the pilot will radio the guide into the animal. If the guide is too far away the pilot will harass the animals until they hole up. Another technique is to take the guide and client up for the spotting. When an animal is selected it is buzzed and harrassed. If buzzed continually an elk will hole up under a large tree or in some heavy cover, and still be there several hours later when the guide and "hunter" return. This is not a sporting endeavor IMO.
Click to expand...

I agree. This kind of thing might be OK if the hunter is hungry and feeding his family, but I don't really think there is a lot of hunger these days in the US. Anyway, if they can afford an airplane, they're probably not too hungry.

As far as the arial spotting goes, I guess it's OK if it's legal before the season, but I'd rather not have someone buzzing me when I'm out doing some pre-season exploring. So I agree with many here -- it depends on how crowded the area is.

I do love a new business idea.
 
"Hunting" by air ain't the same as varmint control or predator control by air.

In some parts of Texas, there oughta be a bounty on feral hogs. They're about as useful to ranchers and farmers as 400-lb rats.

Art
 
Art,

Just pulling my buddies chain about another friend of ours. The actual "hunt" in question was on a large corporate farm in South Florida, with the hogs being used for a charity cook out.
 
SwampGator asks:"Mannlicher,

How does Harry's helicopter hog shoot fit into that theory.?"

Now as we all know, meat, or subsistance hunting does not have to be ethical. lol
 
I dont see anything wrong at all with aerial scouting. It is very popular up here, I cant afford it but if I could I would do it. As for the law, up here you can not hunt till 3AM the morning after you fly.
 
Hey Lilbiggun,

How much is expensive if you don't mind me asking? I have some friends who were just stationed in AK. I may finally have the chance for a visit. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks
 
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