9mm Sizing issues Military brass

M

Marco Califo

New member
I got around to sizing some of my 9mm 1997 NATO brass. I had already swaged the Primer pockets on the Dillion tool.
The sizing die is a Lee cheap one. My practice is to not lube straight walled pistol cases. I tumbled the ready to size brass, Dry FARTing, with a teaspoon of melted beeswax in fresh corn cob. This maintained the shine and probably functions as a minimalist lube, I do not plan on removing.
When I started sizing, and checking sized cases in a case guage. About 2/3 sized OK. The other 1/3 would not go all the way into the case guage. I started adding paper products under the case in the shellholder (Lyman). Double thickness of index cards, cut to fit, gave me better results.
I remembered Guffy (whose posts I could not read through) using a feeler guage to raise the brass in the shellholder. I got a feeler guage, measured my "paper" and selected 14/1000". I then had to trim the feeler blade enough to fit using a steel file and elbow Grease.
So, I have resized 100+ successfully using the shim apparatus.
It seems the military 9mm brass varies between:
1. Like commercial, and,
2. Hot carbine loads, or oversized chambers, or other factors..
This is the first time I needed to use the feeler guage technique.
 
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The only gauge that really matters is your chamber. Every one is a bit different. When my reloads don't chamber smoothly, I polish the chamber a bit until they do. It usually doesn't take much.
 
Ever since I started using an undersized carbide sizing die years ago all my issues with 9mm went away. I don’t remember who I got it from but it was based on a Lee sizing die.
 
Interesting about the RCBS die, sounds like a good idea. I’ve never actually measured the difference between using the undersize die vs. the standard die, I’ll have to check that out. 9mm was a weird experience for me, I’ve been loading since 1984 but I only reloaded for revolvers because of ease in not having to scrounge through grass and dirt to retrieve brass. Then about 20 years ago after moving to VA I had to get membership in an indoor shooting facility because where I live it’s the easiest option. 9mm brass was abundant and they let me sweep as much brass as I wanted so I started loading it. Even though I’d been loading for quite a while without issues I was having problems with ammo not feeding all the way into the chamber on a couple of my pistols. The cause was a few different things but one of the fixes was the undersized die which is what started me using it.
 
When my reloads don't chamber smoothly, I polish the chamber a bit until they do. It usually doesn't take much.
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Not saying you're wrong, or that it doesn't work, but it seems bass-ackwards to me. If there is something "not quite right" about your reloads, you tinker (remove metal?) polish the chamber until your reloads work.

I would think it better to tinker with your reloads, find out WHY they don't chamber smoothly, (when other ammo does) and fix THAT, instead of "fixing the gun" to shoot that ammo.

Won't claim its a universal cure, but in my experience, when auto pistol rounds don't quite chamber smoothly, the first thing I do is check the crimp. Frequently, just a tiny bit of a "kiss" (or a tiny bit more) from a taper crimp die solves the issue.

I do NOT use the Lee FCD die. I have an RCBS taper crimp .45acp and a Dillon 9mm taper crimp dies, they work just fine, for me.
 
Pictures of the Feeler Guage height boost

Pictures of the Feeler Guage height boost technique:
 

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Marco Califo said:
The sizing die is a Lee cheap one. Not carbide
Click to expand...

That first picture of yours (120444) clearly shows a carbide insert in the mouth of that die. I think you'd have some stuck cases if it were steel.

I did some checking, and Lee doesn't make a steel 9×19 (9mm Luger) die these days. Only carbide is currently available. They do make a steel 9×21 die, but it is a special order at Midway, and it costs about 25% more than the 9×19 carbide die. In any event, if you had one, it would not be compatible with 9×19 because 9×21 has about a 4½% shallower side taper angle, so its die would not size a 9×19 fully.
 
I have a 9mm Small Base die but I only use it for loading short slick bullets like 115 gr plated. The regular Dillon die is good for my present standard of 124 gr coated.

I do use a 9mm Carbide Factory Crimp die on all loads. There is enough variation in mixed brass and bulk bullets to give visibly different effects. A big bullet or thick case will show a burnished band over the rear bearing band of the bullet. A small bullet or thin case won't. A lot of rounds of all sorts show a burnished band near the rim where the mouth radius of the sizing die does not reduce the case.
 
You can use the Lee Factory Crimp Die with their Bulge Buster addition to size the head and any pregnancy bulges on 9 mm, should they get too fat close to the shell holder.

My experience with Dillon dies it that they are tight and overlap some small base designs, though they are more generously radiused at the mouth. Those factors help prevent jams or stalls in the progressive loading process. I first noticed this difference on my Square Deal, which is dedicated to 45 Auto. My old Lyman and RCBS dies would only size the thin-mouthed Remington brass a couple of times before it was no longer sizing them down enough to hang onto a bullet. I used to eschew Remington brand range foundlings because I didn't want to accidentally size, prime, and charge a case only to have the bullet fall in. But the same cases sized in the Square Deal would load just fine.
 
Unclenick, could you expand on that?
"You can use the Lee Factory Crimp Die with their Bulge Buster addition to size the head and any pregnancy bulges on 9 mm, should they get too fat close to the shell holder."
I have the Lee Bulge Buster kit, I use it for 40SW.
 
The Bulge Buster is a Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the crimp ring and adjusting stem removed; cases pushed clear through the carbide insert with the adapter in the kit. This sizes the whole case.

CAUTION: 9mm P is a tapered case, do not try to ram a case all the way through the 9mm P CFC die. Use the die listed for 9mm Makarov, which is a straight case. That die will size down the head and rim, leaving the taper to be resized by the regular sizing die.
 
I remembered incorrectly. The Bulge Buster is a ram that fits into a standard press's shell holder slot so you can shove cases all the way through a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the adjustment plug and crimp ring removed. I was remembering 9mm Makarov works with it. 9mm Luger does not because there is too much taper. 9 mm Makarov is not on the list Lee has on the page I linked to, but it is very straight (only about 0.00154" of taper), so it works fine.
 
Why to bother with 9mm luger brass, which is practically free?

Any sizing die with carbide ring almost never puts proper taper on any cartridge. It is straight and then steeper taper at the base, so the brass is always slightly under sized. Chambering is ok. Probably the external dimensions are still within tolerance specs.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I received the small base die and was able to properly size the brass, without using the "feeler" method. I tested the SB die by resizing my problem brass. All except 2 then passed freely into and out of the case gauge.
 
, so the brass is always slightly under sized.
Click to expand...

Just to be a PITA, are you talking about the dimensions of the sized case, or the action of the die??

Because the same words mean exactly the opposite thing, depending on the context.
:rolleyes:

English is tricksy. :D

A die that undersizes a fired case, means the case was not sized enough, and the case itself is oversize, a die that produces an undersize case has oversized it.

gets confusing, doesn't it?? :rolleyes:
 
44 AMP said:
Just to be a PITA, are you talking about the dimensions of the sized case, or the action of the die??



Because the same words mean exactly the opposite thing, depending on the context.

:rolleyes:



English is tricksy. :D



A die that undersizes a fired case, means the case was not sized enough, and the case itself is oversize, a die that produces an undersize case has oversized it.



gets confusing, doesn't it?? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The sized brass is slightly smaller than the nominal external dimensions (it is a mouthful indeed).

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
In the past, I have obtained 9mm mixed range brass. IMO, it is highly variable, mixed headstamps, and unknown # of loading cycles. I did not trust that brass for full power loads (124 gr. hollow-points, Gold Dots and Berrys HP, 1199 fps BE-86, using Speer data). The brass I bought years ago is 5,000 97 WCC 97 with the NATO symbol, purchased from GIBrass.com. They no longer sell it, and have commercial once fired for sale.These came off a military range, TRULY once fired, are all identical, and passed milspecs to get that far. I knew there would be work involved.
Looking back, no it is not worth all the work, and in subsequent years purchased new Starline brass, which I believe is just as good but more expensive.
I will compare weights of the mil 9mm versus Starline in the future. I may compare case capacities, too.
 
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