9mm +P, +P+ and NATO

N

Noreaster

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I have a couple of questions about these loads and I'd appreciate any first hand information. First question is felt recoil between the three loads. I've been told that a Win Ranger +P+ kicks/flips up more then a 40S&W. Can you feel the difference between a 9mm NATO load and a regular 9mm load. How much more muzzle flip and felt recoil is the +P? I can't feel the difference between NATO and 9mm 115 white box, but then again I mostly shoot 357 Sig and 357 Mag so I'm not the best judge.

Second question is wear and tear on the firearms. Any idea how much of a toll the hotter rounds take on the guns. I know a couple of major LEO agencies issue Gold Dot 124 +P, but LEO doesn't always do allot of shooting, (box or two a year in some agencies.) Has anyone fed their guns a steady diet of NATO or +P, if so I'd like to hear from you and how many rounds of the hot stuff you have through it.
 
The Winchester 127 grain +P+ I shoot out of my Glock 17's "feel" like the 125 grain 357SIG's I used to shoot out of my Glock 31. Then again, the +P+ 9's are basically in the same power/pressure range as the 357SIG's of similar weights, so it makes sense that they would.

I never really noticed any difference between the others.
 
Winchester 9MM Nato, 124Gr +P+ was our issued practice ammo. It was loaded to a PSI of 42,500#. I put 10,000 + rounds of it through a Sig 228 with the only ill effect was that recoil spring needed more frequent replacement. I have heard of the Nato Ammo breaking Sig's, but never saw it happen. I would suggest that if the ammo broke a Sig it was a 225 & not one of the double stack models.

The recoil in a 228 is sharp, but not as hard as either a 357 Sig or a 40 S&W.
 
I can tell the difference between the plus p's I usually shoot and the double plus. As for the nato rounds, they just feel like +P's to me.
 
for what it is worth a midwestern shop told me that the hardest load on the Beretta 92 was the 147 grain load. More problems with oscillating wedge with agency using this load than neighbors using +P+ had.
 
Winchester 9MM Nato, 124Gr +P+ was our issued practice ammo. It was loaded to a PSI of 42,500#.
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Never heard of this ammo before, but sounds interesting. Can you tell us what the product code is?
 
The shape and weight of the gun likely have much more to do with muzzle flip and felt recoil than the difference in these rounds. Fired in identical guns there ought to be more recoil and flip the higher the velocity given the same bullet weight. If you've fired some large caliber high velocity rounds through handguns then I doubt any of these listed are going to really get your attention.
 
In rough numbers: All 4" barrel

-124gr. standard (non +P) comes in at about 330-340 ft. lbs.

-124gr NATO comes at about 370-380 ft. lbs.

-124gr +P comes in in the low 400 ft. lbs.

In a full frame 9mm you can hardly tell the difference.

American Eagle, Fiocchi, and S&B all make their FMJ ammo hotter than most other brands for non +P.....in other words close to the NATO pressure.
 
Speer seems to put 9MM +P+ in the 40,000psi range (at least thats what they told me when I emailed them on this very subject), which is what 357SIG is.

They basically said that bullets of similar weights, driven at similar pressures, will render similar results.

The main difference being, not all 9mm's can handle +P+, where all 357SIGs, were designed to handle the round. Out of modern guns, I dont think its really much of an issue, but I suppose over time and a lot of rounds, the gun will probably show wear sooner than a gun that didnt use it.
 
I have fired NATO 9mm through both my 9's a SW5906 and Ruger P89 the +P's I have never ventured there neither of them say they can fire +P's so I wont venture that way if it don't say it I wouldn't try it IMO but that is just me. I know there is a difference with the +P loads the NATO but as for NATO being +P loads I find that a little hard to believe.
 
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TNT said:
NATO being +P loads I find that a little hard to believe.
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It's close.

From memory, SAAMI 9mm pressure for a standard load is about 34000 psi. The +P is about 38000. The NATO is over the 34000. But remember that SAAMI +P does have a range. The top is set, but anything above standard pressure is assumed +P. Some +P rounds are hotter than others...up to the limit.

PS. Not sure what you meant about the P89, but it will handle any +P round on the planet.:)
 
Winchester 9MM Nato, 124Gr +P+ was our issued practice ammo. It was loaded to a PSI of 42,500#.
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Hmmm. I think you might be confusing two different Winchester rounds. The 9mm NATO hardball round is by definition a +P round, loaded to a pressure less than the 38,500 PSI maximum for +P. Winchester's 127-grain Ranger-T (JHP) +P+ round is loaded to ~42,000 PSI.
 
From memory, SAAMI 9mm pressure for a standard load is about 34000 psi. The +P is about 38000. The NATO is over the 34000. But remember that SAAMI +P does have a range. The top is set, but anything above standard pressure is assumed +P. Some +P rounds are hotter than others...up to the limit
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+1 My experience too with 124 gr NATO rounds.

FWIW, we also fired a 147gr Sub-sonic round, NALC A362 if memory serves….
 
PS. Not sure what you meant about the P89, but it will handle any +P round on the planet
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Really? That I did not know I have used NATO rounds before with no problems at least none that I noticed I figured if the 92F's could handle it my 9's could too What I meant with the +P's on the P89 is that i never tried any of them in it. I wasn't sure they could take it so I let a sleeping dog lie.
 
I wasn't sure they could take it so I let a sleeping dog lie.
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P89 is +P rated.

The Ruger P series are about as tough as you can get for semi's.

BTW, American Eagle, Fiocchi, and S&B FMJ are hotter than normal FMJ and about equal to NATO.

I guess I should add, SAAMI +P or NATO are not really that big a deal. You are only taking about a 10%-12% increase in pressure. Any well made medium to large frame 9MM can take them with no issue. Also some small frame 9mm's.
 
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what is the difference of power with the +P+ rounds then? From the way its been talked about so far the .357 sig is the +P+ or am I wrong in that assumption?
 
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