9mm +p+ more knockdown than 45!!!

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arcus98dac

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All my buddies love the 40 s&w and the 45. When I tell them my research concludes that you can get more knockdown energy from extra hi pressure store bought 9mm ammo than you can from a 45 they look at me weird. I am a ballistics dude. My preference for the 9 comes not only from the reason in which it is the most widely used pistol cal. Worl-wide (good if your **** ever goes international) but according to wikipedia there is only 1 type of 45 that surpasses the 9+p+, the 185gr bonded defense load. I know die hard 1911 fans prob. Hate this subject but I thought I would put it out there to see where it goes. I have always loved the high pressure 9 and love the fact that I can hold so many more rounds and that they are usually stronger loads than what average people keep in there 40s and 45s. Im sure if you reload you can make some pretty heavy hitting 45s though no dought.
 
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I carry both 9mm... and .45. I am confident with both, and both have their place.

However I carry a 9mm for a smaller package... and the ability for faster follow up shots.... to me +P+ loadings hinder the major factor of the 9mm... which is faster follow up shots.

I'll stick with my Winchester PDX-1's that are in my H&K P7 at the moment.;)

Shot placement is more important than anything else. Training fosters shot placement, so I train often.:cool:

You want to toy with +P+ loadings in smaller rounds... buy a 10mm.:D
 
Oh no, not another my caliber is bigger than your caliber, or my caliber is more potent than your caliber, thread. :(

Honestly people, carry the gun that best fits your situation, mode of dress, weather, etc. Whatever you can carry and shoot comfortably is the best gun in the world.

I mostly carry a .380 ACP with which I practice at the range every other week for 2 hours. It has become such an extension of my arm that I can get excellent shot placements with it during my self-defense drills. If you want to complain about my choice, feel free to stand in front of me while I do my drills. If you survive 3 quick shots to the heart and diaphragm, then I will concede that I am wrong about my choice and your caliber is the best in the world.:D
 
When your shooting a 9+p+ the need for a quick follow up shot is less, when your hit with 500 ft/lbs a limb is coming off or your getting knocked down. Even with high pressure 9mm loads your follow up shots should be quicker than a 45
 
Ok, i'll trade in my 9mm deringer for the 22. Yeah i am sure both can kill a man, but lets see if your 380 will shoot through my solid wood door. I be on one side you on another, then we can have a real life drill. Not some "at the range drill".
 
^ My .380 has proved more than adequate in barrier penetration in my own redneck tests (old door, old microwave). Penetrated both wood and light metal.

When I get around to purchasing my first 9x19, I will be using standard-pressure, and perhaps on a very rare occasion +p. Never +p+.

Reason 1.) I am a collector. I never intend to buy a gun I don't want to fill a permanent role in my carrying and range shooting. As such, I prefer not to abuse the internals of my weapons with extra-high-pressure loadings.

Reason 2.) The primary benefit of the 9x19 is lighter recoil and higher capacity for easy, and numerous, follow-up shots. Though the exact degree to which the .40 and .45 are more powerful is a huge debate that rages constantly, they are undoubtedly more powerful rounds.

If I want the power offered by +p+, I'll up my caliber rather than abuse my pistol chambers with ultra-pressure rounds. With the increased recoil from the +p+ causing recoil to be in the .40/.45, the distinct advantages of the 9x19 are negated.

A standard pressure 124 or 147 grain 9x19 will easily put down any unarmored target if the shooter is accurate, especially with equipped with an excellent JHP design like HST, Gold Dot, Ranger-T, or DPX.

The 9x19 is a potent round deserving of respect and a permanent place in gun safes. However, I flatly reject that it is as deadly, shot-for-shot, as the .40 and .45, unless a direct strike on a critical central nervous system organ is involved.
 
There are some 9mm loads that exceed 45ACP loads yes. However, most 45ACP loads are far superior to 9mm's. Dont get me wrong 9mm is my 2nd favorite Semi Auto round its just the 45 can get it done better. But that does not mean I dont trust my life and do to the 9mm.
-- No such thing as knockdown power with a pistol ;).
 
Arcus, you have a serious lack of knowledge about the capabilities of the .380 ACP, the .40 and the .45. Not to mention that as someone so new to the forum you may want to be less confrontational and rude about other people's choices.

And I know of something that beats your 9MM+p+ any day of the week, my 7.62x39 rifle and my 7.62x54R rifle. Never bring a gun to a rifle fight. I don't care how much you hype any handgun round, the fact is that all handgun rounds are severely under-powered by firearms standards, and are a compromise between portability and power.
 
You dont use high pressure loadings every time you go out target shooting. I usually just use ball ammo for play. If you have a solid gun it is built to withstand many higher pressure loads, in fact my arcus says 9mm p right on the chamber. I only keep high pressure loads in the weapon for home defense in case you wanna shoot through walls, doors etc. The whole point of me putting this thread out was to show that high dollar ballistic testings are done for a reason and most people i talk with dont know about this fact. I know people are going to shoot what they want, like or have. I was just throwing out a topic.
 
Arcus, as an additional point, no handgun round, and i mean no handgun round, tears off limbs or knocks people down. That just doesn't happen. Handguns are great weapons for their size, but even a .454 Casull is anemic next to even a mid sized rifle round.
 
Yeah im new a.g., but i can read that i am in the general handgun forum, not the rifle forum. If you want to talk rifle calibers you are underpowered and under -ranged by 300 wsm or even the 30-06 &.308
 
I dont know, i am the type of american who likes harleys, big motors, big guns, big butts, loud noises and my guns to kick. If i wanted to drink saki and pack a 380 and an ak, ha, well then i would not consider myself an american eagle
 
Arcus, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first, but your manners are not acceptable to the standards of this forum. Liking motorcycles and exaggerating the performance of handguns does not make someone American. And insulting another person like that makes you seem smaller, not bigger.

And it is spelled Sake. Asian cuisine doesn't make somebody unAmerican either. There are U.S. soldiers of Asian descent fighting for you right this minute.
 
The problem with +P+ is there are no true SAAMI pressure specs on it. Its bascially a super hot load you dont know the PSI of. I dont want to shoot that. I stick to +p and us that sparingly as well. You do not need +p all the time to get it done, especially with my 45.

@arcus98dac-- only keep high pressure loads in the weapon for home defense in case you wanna shoot through walls, doors etc.
-That is a terrible idea only shoot what you can see.

A .50BMG, MK19 40MM, Bushmaster 25MM, and an Apache 30MM chaingun are a few weapons I can think of that would remove limbs ;).
 
Arcus, I have no intention of getting into a "my caliber is better than yours" fight. Good luck since you are new here, hope you will stick around and learn a few things. There are a lot of smart people here with a lot of real knowledge about firearms, and certainly far more knowledge than anything I possess. Good luck sir.
 
I guess these people spend to much time on the internet watching movies. When you get hit with a hollow point generating 500 pounds in the arm that b%*ch is coming off. Or if you get it in the chest your going to get knocked over. You most definitely wont be standing still as if a fly hit you.
 
Arcus, I am flat out telling you that you are incorrect, and even a small amount of research would show it. Handguns do not knock off limbs or push people to the ground. That does not happen.

If you can show me a single documented case of either of those effects on target with a handgun round, I will eat my hat.
 
If you want to complain and argue great. It is all good, i already stated people are going to shoot what they want. If u want to shoot a 380 and an AK then call yourself a big bad american eagle well then more power to ya, you will definitely need it
 
If i wanted to drink saki and pack a 380 and an ak, ha, well then i would not consider myself an american eagle
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You do not know anything about me to be insulting me like that. I did not have the fortune or the privilege to be born in the United States of America, like you. I was born to communism, and unlike you, I had to fight and struggle to have the freedoms that you take for granted.

I was privileged to have the opportunity to come to this country to work hard, make a good living for myself, and become an American citizen. I thank God every day for this country. Being American is not about having a motorcycle or another piece of material junk. Being an American is to be a free man with the ability to prosper or fail based on your own merits and capabilities. Being an American is about standing side by side with your fellow citizens in times of need, and to strive to make your community better. And that's why I am proud to be a citizen of the best country in the world.

Do not tell me what being an American is, sir....because you have no idea what it means.
 
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