9mm +P ballistics = .40 ballistics?
- Thread starter GunRus
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EastSideRich
New member
All I can add is this:
I've shot both into my own "ballistic gel" (it's a pretty tough block of a rubbery adhesive I got from work, stops 9mm .40 and .45 in about 3-4 inches and fully expands them)
The only +p 9mm I've shot into it is Federal HST, I've also shot .40 HST into it.
The .40s end up a lot bigger and have roughly the same penetration (They recoil more too if that means anything to you). To me they seem like they would do more damage. Is it a lot more damage? I dont know, but I would feel better with a .40 in a gun fight than a 9mm.
I'm sure it wont take long for someone to disagree with me, but I say the .40 hits harder and does more tissue damage.
I've shot both into my own "ballistic gel" (it's a pretty tough block of a rubbery adhesive I got from work, stops 9mm .40 and .45 in about 3-4 inches and fully expands them)
The only +p 9mm I've shot into it is Federal HST, I've also shot .40 HST into it.
The .40s end up a lot bigger and have roughly the same penetration (They recoil more too if that means anything to you). To me they seem like they would do more damage. Is it a lot more damage? I dont know, but I would feel better with a .40 in a gun fight than a 9mm.
I'm sure it wont take long for someone to disagree with me, but I say the .40 hits harder and does more tissue damage.
Who cares?
Like someone said, if you can't hit what you're aiming at, you're only making noise.
I'm going out on a limb here...
I love guys who knock the 9 and carry a .40
I say why not carry a .45
I own numerous guns. The most important one is the one that's on, or near me if I need it to save my life.
There is no "bad" round, there is only bad marksmanship.
Like someone said, if you can't hit what you're aiming at, you're only making noise.
I'm going out on a limb here...
I love guys who knock the 9 and carry a .40
I say why not carry a .45
I own numerous guns. The most important one is the one that's on, or near me if I need it to save my life.
There is no "bad" round, there is only bad marksmanship.
I'm not clear on the question. Are you asking if these two rounds are identical? What loads are you asking about? Are you asking about a 147gr. 9mm+P vs. a 155 gr. load in .40S&W? Or are you asking something else?
The short answer is that 9mm+P can have an equivalent effect in a self defense situation in that both rounds can stop an attack. Both rounds can kill a coyote. With proper shot placement both rounds are effective.
But exactly what are you asking? Are you asking if the 9mm in general is ballistically the same as the .40S&W? Obviously they are not.
tipoc
The short answer is that 9mm+P can have an equivalent effect in a self defense situation in that both rounds can stop an attack. Both rounds can kill a coyote. With proper shot placement both rounds are effective.
But exactly what are you asking? Are you asking if the 9mm in general is ballistically the same as the .40S&W? Obviously they are not.
tipoc
Why do these questions always go off topic of shot placement. That isn't the question. You can answer questions about ballistics without resorting to "omg teh soht placement!"
This data should be helpful:
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php?sort=grade1
This is a topic that's been done to death, though.
This data should be helpful:
http://demigodllc.com/~zak/firearms/fbi-pistol.php?sort=grade1
This is a topic that's been done to death, though.
PointOneSeven
New member
Pretty close in foot poundage and performance, assuming similar bullet style and weight.
I carry 9mm.
I'd carry 40 S&W but it usually makes for a bigger gun.
I carry 9mm.
I'd carry 40 S&W but it usually makes for a bigger gun.
Sturmgewehre
New member
You can load them both way up... and the 9mm can be pushed almost as far as the .40 S&W. Heck, there are 9mm loads out there with 511ft/lbs of muzzle energy.
Of course you can get 560ft/lbs of muzzle energy out of hot loaded .40 S&W.
If the question is which one can be loaded to have more muzzle energy, that's the .40 S&W.
Of course you can get 560ft/lbs of muzzle energy out of hot loaded .40 S&W.
If the question is which one can be loaded to have more muzzle energy, that's the .40 S&W.
That's it, exactly what is the question? Does the op want a long and pointless debate? What load and what bullets? There are many good loads for both the 9mm and the 40 S&W.
Till the question is more specific the answer can only be to pick the right load for the job, in a gun that the shooter can handle well with that load, and that shot placement trumps caliber.
tipoc
Till the question is more specific the answer can only be to pick the right load for the job, in a gun that the shooter can handle well with that load, and that shot placement trumps caliber.
tipoc
Playing the numbers game, and using bullet weights that are close, the 357SIG comes out on top....
All loads fro Double Tap's site (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21)....
9mm +P 124 grain Gold Dots
Ballistics : 124gr @ 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17.
.40 S&W 135 grain Nolser JHP
Ballistics : 135gr. @ 1375fps / 567 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)
357SIG 125 grain Gold Dots
Ballistics : 1450fps / 584 ft. lbs. 4"bbl
Most of the 9mm loaded at the +P+ level and 357SIG, using bullets of equal weights, will give you similar velocities. Dont know why Double tap doesnt offer +P+ though, maybe its to close for comfort in their pressure ranges.
I use both their 357SIG 125 grain loads and their .40S&W 165 grain loads. They are a little hotter than most of the other factory stuff, but nothing noticeably drastic when you shoot them compared to Federals or Speer, etc. The 125 grain 357SIG Double Taps do bring you into the 125 grain 357MAG range.
All loads fro Double Tap's site (http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21)....
9mm +P 124 grain Gold Dots
Ballistics : 124gr @ 1310fps / 473ft. lbs. from a G17.
.40 S&W 135 grain Nolser JHP
Ballistics : 135gr. @ 1375fps / 567 ft/lbs- Glock 23 (4.0"bbl)
357SIG 125 grain Gold Dots
Ballistics : 1450fps / 584 ft. lbs. 4"bbl
Most of the 9mm loaded at the +P+ level and 357SIG, using bullets of equal weights, will give you similar velocities. Dont know why Double tap doesnt offer +P+ though, maybe its to close for comfort in their pressure ranges.
I use both their 357SIG 125 grain loads and their .40S&W 165 grain loads. They are a little hotter than most of the other factory stuff, but nothing noticeably drastic when you shoot them compared to Federals or Speer, etc. The 125 grain 357SIG Double Taps do bring you into the 125 grain 357MAG range.
here's a thought: goin' ballistic
Regardless of energy, one is unable to make a .355" diameter bullet .400".
How much energy in an energy drink?
The numbers game I like to play is how many people that have been shot ask about the numbers?
The nine is fine, the 357 SIG is fine, the 40 S&W is fine.
Fine fine fine.
Expecting a bullet to do ALL the work is naive; if i do the work the bullet really won't matter.
I still prefer stacking odds..........
Regardless of energy, one is unable to make a .355" diameter bullet .400".
How much energy in an energy drink?
The numbers game I like to play is how many people that have been shot ask about the numbers?
The nine is fine, the 357 SIG is fine, the 40 S&W is fine.
Fine fine fine.
Expecting a bullet to do ALL the work is naive; if i do the work the bullet really won't matter.
I still prefer stacking odds..........
EK and KK in FM
New member
Self Defense 9mm and .40S&W
The best self defense rounds I can find are listed on the RBCD.net website.
The 9mm is 60 grains total fragmenting soft point, speed 2010fps, 539 ftlbs
The .40 S&W is 77 grains, speed 2100fps, 754ftlbs
Other rounds for general target shooting show
The 9mm generally at speeds in the high 1100 to low 1200fps, 360-380 ftlbs
The .40 S&W speeds in high 1200 to 1300fps, 440-560ftlbs
So in comparing any rounds, the .40 S&W is generally traveling faster, with more mass.
That said, either will get the job done and I'd feel just as safe with my G-26 or G-27. (Except for grizzly attack--in which case I'd not even feel safe with my Super Redhawk .44 magnum!) Fortunately, there aren't many "griz" in Florida.
The best self defense rounds I can find are listed on the RBCD.net website.
The 9mm is 60 grains total fragmenting soft point, speed 2010fps, 539 ftlbs
The .40 S&W is 77 grains, speed 2100fps, 754ftlbs
Other rounds for general target shooting show
The 9mm generally at speeds in the high 1100 to low 1200fps, 360-380 ftlbs
The .40 S&W speeds in high 1200 to 1300fps, 440-560ftlbs
So in comparing any rounds, the .40 S&W is generally traveling faster, with more mass.
That said, either will get the job done and I'd feel just as safe with my G-26 or G-27. (Except for grizzly attack--in which case I'd not even feel safe with my Super Redhawk .44 magnum!) Fortunately, there aren't many "griz" in Florida.
Sturmgewehre
New member
AK103, why do you overlook the hottest DoubleTap 9mm offering which has 511ft/lbs of muzzle energy?
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=119
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_37&products_id=119
DWARREN123
New member
I like and carry a 40 S&W. I like the 40 cal best but I am not saying the 9mm or 45 ACP is bad just that I like the 40 and think it is the best for me.
Deaf Smith
New member
The very top 9mms a just a bit better than lower end .40s.
The very top .40s/.357 Sigs are a bit better than lower end .45s.
The very top .45s well, they are pretty good.
All have advantages and disadvantages. The 9mm is real easy to shoot strait in a compact handgun (and shooting strait is number uno!) The .40 carrys a few less BBs but hits a but harder. The .45 again a few less BBs but hits even harder.
I carry a Glock 27 in .40. My practice Glock is a 26 (9mm) cause it's cheep to shoot. Both are set up mirror image. I shoot IDPA and practice quite alot cause I know no matter what handgun you have, the round is a weak stopper compared to any serious rifle. Shooting strait, again, is number one.
Don't get hanged up on 9mm .vs. .40 .vs. 45 etc... they all have their place.
The very top .40s/.357 Sigs are a bit better than lower end .45s.
The very top .45s well, they are pretty good.
All have advantages and disadvantages. The 9mm is real easy to shoot strait in a compact handgun (and shooting strait is number uno!) The .40 carrys a few less BBs but hits a but harder. The .45 again a few less BBs but hits even harder.
I carry a Glock 27 in .40. My practice Glock is a 26 (9mm) cause it's cheep to shoot. Both are set up mirror image. I shoot IDPA and practice quite alot cause I know no matter what handgun you have, the round is a weak stopper compared to any serious rifle. Shooting strait, again, is number one.
Don't get hanged up on 9mm .vs. .40 .vs. 45 etc... they all have their place.