fireaway45
Inactive
Just want to make sure I have this straight, but a 9mm major is a standard 9mm casing loaded to higher pressure, correct? Also, how can you know for sure wether your gun can handle this cartridge?
9mm Major
- Thread starter fireaway45
- Start date
9mm major is basically an USPSA/IPSC term..
it is basically loading up the 9x19 case to meet the USPSA 165PF..bullet weight X velocity /1000 (exp. 124gr X 1331 = 165.044 / 1000 = 165.044PF )
sometimes this is done by loading long..the bullet out..so the cartridge OAL is 1.225 to 1.250..or it is possible by loading to normal 9x19OAL of 1.095 to 1.130.
usually small rifle primers are used also..as well as ramped barrels.
can your gun take it??? who knows..you will need to carefully load, using a chronograph and watch for signs of pressure.
it is basically loading up the 9x19 case to meet the USPSA 165PF..bullet weight X velocity /1000 (exp. 124gr X 1331 = 165.044 / 1000 = 165.044PF )
sometimes this is done by loading long..the bullet out..so the cartridge OAL is 1.225 to 1.250..or it is possible by loading to normal 9x19OAL of 1.095 to 1.130.
usually small rifle primers are used also..as well as ramped barrels.
can your gun take it??? who knows..you will need to carefully load, using a chronograph and watch for signs of pressure.
Hunter Customs
New member
There's been several 9mm major guns blown up. A lot of the problem seems to be when shooters are using mixed brass. There's no room for error when loading 9mm major. Pick one brand of brass if you are going to load 9mm major and don't push your luck if you see pressure signs.
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
Regards
Bob Hunter
www.huntercustoms.com
It really needs to be done with a fully supported ramped barrel. We are talking about pressures 50% or more above what SAAMI specifies for 9mm. It is a really bad idea in anything other than a fully supported ramped barrel.
I am loading 9mm to major power factor. I load them long enough that they won't fit in a standard 9mm magazine, I DO NOT want to get them in anything not built for it. That said, I have 5 powders to Major with 115 grain bullets with no pressure signs whatsoever using pistol primers. It can be done, it can be done safely too, but it needs to be done under tightly controlled circumstances. If something goes wrong it will probably be spectacular.....
I am loading 9mm to major power factor. I load them long enough that they won't fit in a standard 9mm magazine, I DO NOT want to get them in anything not built for it. That said, I have 5 powders to Major with 115 grain bullets with no pressure signs whatsoever using pistol primers. It can be done, it can be done safely too, but it needs to be done under tightly controlled circumstances. If something goes wrong it will probably be spectacular.....
HiltonFarmer
New member
Most IPSC shooters I know use 9mm as a Minor power factor (125). If you're wanting to shoot major (160 for Open and 170 for Modified and Standard) - .40 is a minimum.
Why make a gun perform outside all normal ranges? You're really pushing the limits of safety by doing this IMO.
Hiltonfarmer
Why make a gun perform outside all normal ranges? You're really pushing the limits of safety by doing this IMO.
Hiltonfarmer
Hilton, 9x19 is the minimum bore and case length for major power factor in USPSA. A 40 isn't competitive in Open division here.
The 9mm making major is a safe and practical approach if it is done correctly, just as the 38 Super is. Done right it is not pushing the limits of safety at all. We are not talking about taking a stock 9mm handgun and just loading it to Major though some guns certainly will do so safely, we are talking about specially configured and well built race guns.
The 9mm making major is a safe and practical approach if it is done correctly, just as the 38 Super is. Done right it is not pushing the limits of safety at all. We are not talking about taking a stock 9mm handgun and just loading it to Major though some guns certainly will do so safely, we are talking about specially configured and well built race guns.
Cylinder & Slide makes a trick compensated Hi-Power, and if you shoot major power ammo in it, you void the warranty. The only guns I've seen running 9mmP at major are 1911 and CZ derivatives. The only reason that anyone has come up with for 9mm Major, that I've heard verbalized, is "cheap brass". I know a few people who have rebarreled their Supers for 9mm; maybe they needed new barrels anyway, but I can't see spending $200-$400 on a new barrel, to save a few pennies on brass?
12 to 16 cents each for Super, Super Comp, TJ, 9x23 etc. 9mm once fired is one cent to two cents each.
At the local matches I shoot I am LUCKY to recover half of my brass and a third is a lot more realistic. Lets call that 500 rounds a month. Bigger matches are almost always lost brass, I will shoot about 900 rounds in them this year. Just those two ways to lose brass pays for the barrel in less than a year, not to mention if you take a class and need 2000 rounds loaded at the start you will have a bunch of money out in brass.
I built mine in 9mm for these reasons, and so far it is just outstanding. I have not seen any reason to change it to a Super. It is just pennies, but those pennies pile up pretty quickly if you shoot much.
At the local matches I shoot I am LUCKY to recover half of my brass and a third is a lot more realistic. Lets call that 500 rounds a month. Bigger matches are almost always lost brass, I will shoot about 900 rounds in them this year. Just those two ways to lose brass pays for the barrel in less than a year, not to mention if you take a class and need 2000 rounds loaded at the start you will have a bunch of money out in brass.
I built mine in 9mm for these reasons, and so far it is just outstanding. I have not seen any reason to change it to a Super. It is just pennies, but those pennies pile up pretty quickly if you shoot much.
Hirt that I have seen doesn't make major but the Ranger will do it from a G17
Hirt is in the upper 150's in my experience, and the Ranger is upper 160's.
the Ranger is rather uhhhh.......vigorous, in recoil. Cases look good, primers look good, pressures are not that high. I have seen much worse pressure signs from S&B standard ball ammo.
There are some printed recipes for major 9 too at normal 9mm lengths, Power Pistol with 147's and Vit has several more.
Hirt is in the upper 150's in my experience, and the Ranger is upper 160's.the Ranger is rather uhhhh.......vigorous, in recoil. Cases look good, primers look good, pressures are not that high. I have seen much worse pressure signs from S&B standard ball ammo.
There are some printed recipes for major 9 too at normal 9mm lengths, Power Pistol with 147's and Vit has several more.
singlestack00
Inactive
Major 9mm, yeah right...
A 9mm loaded to SAAMI spec OAL can not make major period. The only way to accomplish it is to load the bullet long. There is simply not enough case volume, even compressing the load, to make major and not exceed SAAMI OAL. USPSA erred grieviously in the rule change which allowed 9mm to be shot in major. You will find that 99% of the shooters who claim to be shooting major with a 9mm will never show up at a match where they actually have to have their ammo verified with a chronometer. If they do, they "decide" to shoot minor for a number BS reasons.
At a Cactus League match in Phoenix last night, I witnessed a competitor shoot the lead out of a bullet leaving the copper jacket lodged in the barrel. Of course he was shooting very hot 9mm's.
A 9mm loaded to SAAMI spec OAL can not make major period. The only way to accomplish it is to load the bullet long. There is simply not enough case volume, even compressing the load, to make major and not exceed SAAMI OAL. USPSA erred grieviously in the rule change which allowed 9mm to be shot in major. You will find that 99% of the shooters who claim to be shooting major with a 9mm will never show up at a match where they actually have to have their ammo verified with a chronometer. If they do, they "decide" to shoot minor for a number BS reasons.
At a Cactus League match in Phoenix last night, I witnessed a competitor shoot the lead out of a bullet leaving the copper jacket lodged in the barrel. Of course he was shooting very hot 9mm's.
OAL is very subjective. It is more a factor of the bullet. A trunicated cone bullet will have a shorter OAL than a round nose due to where the ogive engages the rifling.
While the 2011 platforms do load the 9 majors longer due to the ability to 38 super magazines with a spacer, the 9 major glocks do fine at traditional 9mm OAL.
I agree a 115 grain bullet at anywhere near sammi OAL will have trouble making major, but a 124 or 147 will do so. Again it's not about OAL it's all about signs of pressure.
I've always wondered for a 9 major glock possibly using a 124 grain trunicated cone, and cutting the chamber to use that specific bullet loaded as long as the magazine allowed. This will give me more case volume which will give me more powder choices.
As far as 9 major in my neck of the woods many people are doing it. Yes they are making major and I've seen the chrono results. They also don't claim minor when the chrono man is around at a major or area match.
While the 2011 platforms do load the 9 majors longer due to the ability to 38 super magazines with a spacer, the 9 major glocks do fine at traditional 9mm OAL.
I agree a 115 grain bullet at anywhere near sammi OAL will have trouble making major, but a 124 or 147 will do so. Again it's not about OAL it's all about signs of pressure.
I've always wondered for a 9 major glock possibly using a 124 grain trunicated cone, and cutting the chamber to use that specific bullet loaded as long as the magazine allowed. This will give me more case volume which will give me more powder choices.
As far as 9 major in my neck of the woods many people are doing it. Yes they are making major and I've seen the chrono results. They also don't claim minor when the chrono man is around at a major or area match.
spaceghost
Inactive
Well.. 9mm Major is not for the faint of heart. It is best used by experienced shooters and reloaders in guns purpose built for the cartridge. There is little margin for error and I agree that you need to use one brand of brass. I use RP or Federal and have seen problems with the winchester.
The only reason I know of to shoot 9mm major is save money on brass and not feel the need to shag my brass for reloading. If I were a bagillionaire I would shoot .38s brass and leave it on the ground.
Singlestack00 - your experience with 9mm major shooters not really shooting major must be a regional problem. Many shooters in the gulf coast area of Texas shoot 9mm major and it is major. I personally shoot a load that is 170-171pf.
The only reason I know of to shoot 9mm major is save money on brass and not feel the need to shag my brass for reloading. If I were a bagillionaire I would shoot .38s brass and leave it on the ground.
Singlestack00 - your experience with 9mm major shooters not really shooting major must be a regional problem. Many shooters in the gulf coast area of Texas shoot 9mm major and it is major. I personally shoot a load that is 170-171pf.
ah, fallacy
I started making Major Nine back when it was called that, and I make mine to SAAMI-length.
I did it with numerous bullet weights; I did it with more than one powder; I did it with anally inspected 'brass'.
I still make Major Nine (oddity: side by side loading of 9x19 and 9x21 with the ONLY variables being case, and crimp adjustment, taught me that MY loads were within 20fps, with the shorter case being the slower load. I am convinced the longer 9x21 case provides more time for powder burn due to increased case neck tension from its longer case).
I often use compressed loads, particularly for social ammo, to preclude any possibility of bullet set-back, which IMO would be catastrophic at these elevated Screw-SAAMI pressures.
To me, the possibility of things going bad suggest that the 38 Super family is a smarter choice.
I started making Major Nine back when it was called that, and I make mine to SAAMI-length.
I did it with numerous bullet weights; I did it with more than one powder; I did it with anally inspected 'brass'.
I still make Major Nine (oddity: side by side loading of 9x19 and 9x21 with the ONLY variables being case, and crimp adjustment, taught me that MY loads were within 20fps, with the shorter case being the slower load. I am convinced the longer 9x21 case provides more time for powder burn due to increased case neck tension from its longer case).
I often use compressed loads, particularly for social ammo, to preclude any possibility of bullet set-back, which IMO would be catastrophic at these elevated Screw-SAAMI pressures.
To me, the possibility of things going bad suggest that the 38 Super family is a smarter choice.
Singlestack, I have been as high as 196 power factor with 9mm loaded long with 115 grain bullets, and 185 at SAAMI lenth. EVERY round I shoot in a match is major, a little integrity which most USPSA competitors have, dictates that.
9mm Major is NO harder to load, NO more dangerous, and NO more complicated to work with than 38 Super.
Buy a box of the Ranger 127 +P+ and chrono that out of any 4" or longer barrel, it makes major and is on the shelf!
9mm Major is NO harder to load, NO more dangerous, and NO more complicated to work with than 38 Super.
Buy a box of the Ranger 127 +P+ and chrono that out of any 4" or longer barrel, it makes major and is on the shelf!
Para Bellum
New member
9mm Major is common place in Europe (IPSC Open Division)
Here in Europe all IPSC Open Division Competitors I know (and I know a lot) shoot 9x19mm (Luger) handloaded to Major factor.
There are many reasons:
You only need a .40 for IPSC if you want to shoot Major in the Standard Division. And that's only because the rules say so....
Here in Europe all IPSC Open Division Competitors I know (and I know a lot) shoot 9x19mm (Luger) handloaded to Major factor.
There are many reasons:
- with a good gun (1911 SVI / STI etc) it is perfectly safe
- cases and bullets are cheap and everywhere
- you get more bullets in a 17cm magazine than with a larger diameter case
You only need a .40 for IPSC if you want to shoot Major in the Standard Division. And that's only because the rules say so....
Bob Hostetter
New member
The 9x19 can easily make major at SAMMI overall length. I have done it for years using it in Glock's, and EAA's. HS-6 powder and 125gr FMJ bullets seems to work best, at least for me.......