9mm in a revolver or an automatic?

D

Deja vu

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I was at the range last Friday and saw a guy there shooting a 9mm revolver. I started thinking about it and was wondering if the 5 inch revolver barrel (because the chamber is not considered part of the barrel) is more of a benefit ballistically or if the cylinder gap takes away more energy.

so would a 9mm have more energy from a 5 inch revolver or a 5 inch automatic?
 
Yes. Both ways.

I once had a book with target and chronograph readings of every 9mm then on the market including S&W and Ruger revolvers. Velocities were all over the map. There are so many other factors in gun barrels that there is no way to predict what is going to happen by reading the catalog.
 
I would guess that the velocity of a 9mm from a 5" revolver barrel would be somewhat higher than from a 5" semi-auto barrel, but the difference probably wouldn't be huge. A 9mm revolver with a 5" barrel would probably be pretty comparable to a 9mm semi-auto with a 6" barrel due to the differences in measurement. However, a semi-auto does not have a barrel/cylinder gap which reduces velocity somewhat. Also, most manufacturers list their 9mm velocities from a 4-5" barrel since that seems to be the most common length. It only makes sense that the powders used in most 9mm ammo would be optimized for a 4-5" barrel thus making the velocity gains from longer barrels relatively small.
 
I see no point in a semi auto caliber revolver. It use to be that all 9mms were large but no that they are scaled down tremendously. I see no point for a small, med or large 9mm wheelie.
 
I see no point in a semi auto caliber revolver. It use to be that all 9mms were large but no that they are scaled down tremendously. I see no point for a small, med or large 9mm wheelie.
Click to expand...

I do, for one you can keep 9MMs for semi's and Revolver's, and collecting the shell's from relover would be easier. 9mm are also a little cheaper than .38s and .357s, and more powerful than a .38.

Agree, or disagree?
 
Despite the obvious capacity / size & concealability disadvantage, I'd love a 9mm revolver over a pistol because:
1- I hate picking up brass
2- mags present one more item that might potentially malfunction
3- the extremely rare but documented feeding errors that 9mm pistols have with hollow points (I'm all about minimizing potential mishaps, just my personal philosophy)...
With this said, to answer your question, the gap wont make a noticble difference to a BG who gets in the way of a well placed shot!
 
Very good topic,

I was wondering the same thing for the last few days. I was thinking about a Ruger snub in 9mm. I have never seen one but it seems like a very neat idea for a carry gun.

On the other hand, why get the the 9mm if the 357/38 is available in the same platform?

I am convinced that a shooter will be able to fire the 9mm much much quicker.

I wont comment on the velocities because i am really not qualified to. Just thought ill add what i was thinking about.
 
I've owned and enjoyed a Ruger SP101 in 9mm for a long time. That said, the biggest problem with 9mm revolvers is that: a) they cost a fortune due to their rareity b) havig to mess with moon clips before and after each range session.
 
This isn't really a question of a 9mm revolver so much as it's a revolver versus an automatic issue (again). Same thing with .22 rimfire, really.

But I've owned two revolvers in 9mm Luger just the same and no, they aren't common.

The first was a S&W k-frame with a 4" heavy barrel. I forget the model number but 547 comes to mind. It was also available in a 3" round-butt version, too, though I never saw one. Both were blued. As it happened, I also had a 4" Model 13 and later a 3" Model 10. For someone with several guns who is doing a fair amount of shooting, regularly, there isn't anything in particular to recommend a 9mm revolver. But if you like revolvers as well as the 9mm and you are only going to have a single handgun, it was a good choice. I suspect it would be hard to find one now.

One nice thing about that revolver was that it did not require clips (or magazines, either). It had a special extractor that managed with the rimless case. My other revolver did not require clips either. It was a single action Ruger Blackhawk that came with two cylinders. For those of you who like to point out that a .38/.357 bullet and a 9mm bullet are of slightly different calibers, Ruger's approach to the problem was to ignore it and it was of no consequence. I think so did S&W. However, this revolver was more of a novelty than of practical usefulness (to me) but it did have almost a five inch barrel.
 
Made up a block of wood, 5 pieces of 2x6…about 10 inches thick. Shot a 9mm para, 123 gr (manu rated 460 ft lbs, 1300+ fps) out of a 5” barreled Walther P1 and then a 44 Magnum, 240 gr (manu rated 700 ft lbs, 1400+ fps) out of a 4” barreled S&W M29, which is about 5” a barrel if you add on the cylinder chamber. Of course you lose about 3% velocity due to the revolver cylinder/barrel gap.

The result…the 9mm bullet passed thru all 5 boards and kept on going. The 44 Magnum stopped after penetrating 4 and one-half boards and stayed in the wood. Surprised me. Thought the Grizzly cartridge would do better than that.

“…so would a 9mm have more energy from a 5 inch revolver or a 5 inch automatic?” [Déjà vu]

Great question. If I can locate a true 5” revolver in 9mm para I’ll check it out.

S&W made a really nice 9mm para medium framed (K?) revolver in the 70s? the contract sale fell thru so they went on the commercial market, they surface, from time to time, but they are pricey, usually go for about a $1,000.

I wouldn’t mind a 9mm revolver for all the reasons mentioned upstream.

Right now in SE Michigan, you can find 9mm ammo discounted to as low as $10 a box, 38 spl goes for about $18 and .357 for about $23.
 
Here's what I got...

Not 5" barrels, but interesting results.

Makes me want to say, that if the barrels were the same length, the revolver would have the edge, regardless of the barrel/cylinder gap.
 

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>>I've owned and enjoyed a Ruger SP101 in 9mm for a long time. That said, the biggest problem with 9mm revolvers is that: a) they cost a fortune due to their rareity b) havig to mess with moon clips before and after each range session.<<

My sentiments exactly!
 
I think Jim Watson answered this question early -- it depends upon the gun.

Out of short barrels and all other things being equal, 9mm +P can generate higher velocities than .38 spl +P. In commonly available commercial defensive loads in the 115 to 130 gr. range, it is close to the .357 magnum (again, out of short barrels). Yet, there is less recoil than a .357 magnum because the gases and unburned powder exiting the muzzle must be considered in calculating recoil. There are loads available in .357 that will leave the 9mm +P or +P+ in the dust but I'm referring to common defensive ammo available out there, Speer, etc. Check out http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/ for some rough comparisons.

I have a SW Model 547 with a three inch barrel. This is the one that doesn't use moon clips. I've thought about carrying it but just never got around to it. You can just carry so many. :)

SW_Model_547_DSCN1602.jpg


Here is the special extraction system:
SW_Model_547_DSCN1603.jpg


Notice there's an extra pin to hold the cartridges in place:
SW_Model_547_DSCN1596-1.jpg
 
Looks a lot like my 3” S&W M13.

Is that a bobbed hammer, is it factory?

Beautiful gun, wish I had one, beautiful.

Thanks for the pics.
 
The initial request for a 9mm revolver came from the French police who wanted a revolver for PR purposes but wanted to get free 9mm ammo from the military. A few have been sold to American or other foreign polce for the same reason. Except under narrow conditions like that, there is no logical reason for such an animal.

The 9mm offers no advantage whatsoever over .38 Special and is certainly not up to .357 power levels. Further, factory 9mm is loaded in a narrow pressure/velocity range for auto pistols so it takes handloads to get even some of the flexibility of the common revolver rounds. Then add that the small size of the 9mm case limits its loading range considerably.

While such revolvers have been made, and moon-clips and trick extractors used*, the 9mm revolver just doesn't make sense. It is a novelty, with no reason to exist except for some very narrow circumstances.

(Yes, if you just inherited a million rounds of 9mm, and you hate auto pistols, you are a candidate for a 9mm revolver. Most of us don't fall into that category.)

*The Ruger BH convertible is simply a "why not" proposition; there are no extraction problems with a rod extractor.


Jim
 
Because it was possible for the case to kick the hammer back and they wanted to avoid "hammer bite."

There is a plunger in the frame above the firing pin meant to drive the round all the way into the chamber so the firing pin gets a good blow to the primer. It is possible for the fired round to slap that plunger hard enough to rebound the hammer a good distance.
 
The 9mm offers no advantage whatsoever over .38 Special and is certainly not up to .357 power levels.
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I have to respectfully disagree Mr. Keenan. While the information below is not dispositive, it illustrates my point that in common commercially available defense loads, the 9mm +P outshines the .38 spl in terms of velocity in a similar weight bullet out of short barrels and comes close to .357 magnums in some bullet weights.

3 inch test barrel

.38 spl Cor Bon 125 gr 854 fps
.357 mag Corbon 125 gr 1257 fps
9mm Corbon 125 gr +P 1170 fps

.38 spl Corbon 110 gr 851 fps
.357 mag Corbon 110 gr 1109 fps
9mm Corbon 115 gr +P 1245 fps

Source: http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com



Speer short barrel Gold Dots, barrel length unknown:

.38 spl Speer Gold Dot SB 135 gr. +P 880 fps
.357 magnum Speer Gold Dot SB 135 gr. +P 990 fps
9mm Speer Gold Dot SB 124 gr +P 1150 fps

source: http://www.speer-ammo.com/ballistics/ammo.aspx
 
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