9mm confusion

There is a large number of rounds that use bullets of nominal 9mm diameter, though not even all "9mm" rounds use the same bullet. When you see a reference to "9mm", without any qualifiers, it usually refers to 9x19, 9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum, or 9mmP, which are all names for the same cartridge. 9x18 (9mm bullet diameter x 18mm case length) is also called "9mm Makarov", and it uses a larger diamter bullet than the Luger. Other cartridges that are based loosely on the 9mm Luger are 9x21, 9 Super Comp, 9x23 Winchester, 9mm Winchester Magnum, and probably some others. They vary in case length, pressure limit, etc., and while some will interchange, it shouldn't be done without doing some research, first.
 
380 ACP is often called 9MM Short/Kurz (German)/Corto (Italian). However it is NOT merely a short version of 9MMP-and should not be fired in guns chambered for 9MMP. Then there is the Italian 9MM Gilsenti which is dimensionally identical to the 9MMP but is loaded to much lower pressures.
9MMP must NOT be used in pistols chambered for 9MM Glisenti. The Spanish 9MM cartridges such as 9MM are another group that have bore diamters of .355 (more or less) but have different case lemgths.
 
9mm , 380, .38, .357 are all the same diameter of .355. Just different bullet weights.
Click to expand...

That's odd ..... all my .357 and .38 jacketed bullets say .357 diameter ..... and measure .357", too ....... :D
 
Yeah, bullets for the 9mmP/Luger can be .355" or .356", and some have found better accuracy using bullets as large as .357". Most bullets that I've seen advertised at .357" are intended for .38/.357 revolvers, and the size/shape may not be compatible with 9mmP. The 357 SIG round (which also uses a "9mm" bullet of .355"-.356" diameter) was designed around a 125gr bullet, and there aren't many bullets that work, other than the 125gr hollowpoints intended for it.
 
Here's a rundown; each number is a list of names for identical cartridges. Note that these are auto pistol rounds that are called 9mm; several rounds of similar diameter and bullet weights are called .38 or .357:

1. 9mm Browning Short = .380 ACP, 9x17, 9mm Short, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz

2. 9mm Browning Long = 9x20, 9mm Swedish 1908, 9mm FN

3. 9mm Luger = 9x19, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Modell 1908

4. 9mm Makarov = 9x18, 9mm Russian

5. 9mm Ultra = 9x18, 9mm Police, 9mm Polizei, 9mm Walther Super

6. 9mm Glisenti (dimensionally same as 9mm Luger but not as powerful)

7. 9mm Largo = 9x23, 9mm Spanish, 9mm Bergman-Bayard

8. 9mm Steyr = 9x23 Steyr, 9mm Steyr M1911, 9mm Steyr-Hahn

9. 9mm Winchester = 9x23 Winchester (only custom guns made)

10. 9mm Winchester Magnum (only custom guns made)

11. 9mm Mauser = 9x25, 9mm Neuhausen SMG, 9mm Mauser Export

There are some other 9mm auto pistol cartridges but they are so rare that they are unlikely to be encountered.

When the term "9 millimeter" is used by itself today in the U.S., the cartridge meant is almost always #3, the 9mm Luger, which is the SAAMI standard name for the cartridge in this country.

None of the above cartridges shown as identical are truly interchangeable with those of other lists. While 9mm Largo is almost the same as 9mm Steyr, and some writers say they are the same, that is not true.

Go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9_mm_caliber for more info and cartridge dimensions.

Jim
 
A bewildering array of cartridges use nominally 9mm-caliber bullets. However, I'll try to address automatic pistol cartridges named 9mm, and address the question of interchangeability.

9x19mm, 9mm Luger, and 9mm Parabellum are all the same.

9mm NATO and 9mm Luger +P are slightly hotter versions of this cartridge. They will chamber in all 9mm Luger/9mm Para guns, but may cause premature wear and may not function correctly, although most modern 9mm designs can handle them without significant problems.

9mm Luger +P+ is an even hotter version; same warnings apply, just more so.

.380ACP, 9x17mm, 9mm Browning Short, and 9mm Short are all the same, and will NOT interchange with 9mm Luger. It is fairly commonplace for European gunmakers to translate the word "Short" into the local language, e.g. "Kurz" in German and "Corto" in Spanish. Older European subcompact blowback automatics simply marked "9mm" or "9M/M" are usually chambered for this cartridge, NOT 9mm Luger.

The following are unique cartridges that do NOT interchange with 9mm Luger, .380ACP, nor each other, except as noted:

9x18mm Makarov
9x18mm Ultra aka 9mm Police
9x23mm Winchester
9x23mm Steyr
9x23mm Largo aka 9mm Bergmann Bayard
9x23mmSR aka .38ACP aka 9mm Browning Long (predecessor of .38 Super)
.38 Super (substantially hotter version of .38ACP)
9mm Mauser
9mm Glisenti*

*9mm Glisenti is a rare Italian military cartridge that is almost dimensionally identical to 9mm Luger but loaded to much lower pressure. 9mm Glisenti cartridges can be fired safely in 9mm Luger firearms, although they will probably not cycle the action correctly. OTOH 9mm Luger cartridges should NEVER be used in 9mm Glisenti pistols because the higher pressure may cause catastrophic failure of the firearm and injury to the shooter. :eek:
 
Sorry, the 9mm minefield got another victim. 9mm Browning Long is NOT and did not become the .38 ACP; in fact the .38 ACP was developed first, and the 9mm Browning Long is a shortened version. Like the .38 ACP, it is a semi-rimmed round sometimes called the 9x20 and was developed by Browning for his FN Model 1903, a larger version of the Colt Pocket Hammerless. The cartridge was used only in that pistol and in a Webley pistol of limited production. It is said that it was the intended cartridge for the .38 Webley-Fosbery automatic revolver; other sources indicate that gun was made for the .38 ACP, but it would, of course, fire the 9mm Browning Long.

Jim
 
9x23 Winchester (only custom guns made)
Click to expand...

Both Colt and Springfield Armory, at least, offered production 9x23s. Colt also sold 9x23 "conversions - barrel and mag - for their .38 Super pistols.
 
Not sure if it is still in print but Cartridges of The World by Frank Barnes is a great book for new, old, obsolete cartridges. Sporting, military, rifle, pistol. Really interesting reference work to have around for looking up all sorts of cartridges and loads.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top