9mm Apartment Defense/Carry Rounds

T

Thairlar

New member
Any recommendations? I live in a studio apartment. There are two walls that I would consider safe to shoot at with little to no worries about over penetration. One wall leads to a neighboring apartment and another to the laundry room which is relatively safe, especially if it ends up going through my entertainment center first. I'll be using a Walther P99 as soon as the shop gets another one in and I go pick it up.
 
I don't have an answer for you but I'm glad you asked this question. There seems to be much debate about hollow points and expansion. Here's hoping that someone who knows will give a basic rundown on how velocity enters into the equasion. Thanks.
 
If I were in your situation, I'd opt for one of the pre fragmented rounds. The Glaser or Beesafe or Magsafe should work well. They have plenty of stopping power without the excessive penetration that comes with solid or hollowpoint projectiles. They're more expensive than conventional ammo, but I'd be willing to pay more for the peace of mind you get concerning the penetration of apartment walls.
 
BULLETS CAN GO THROUGH THINGS

An 88g JHP at 1550fps that HITS YOUR TARGET with be less likely to kill your neighbors.
 
from what little research i've done i'd say you might want to look into the glasers or another type like it. they are low penetration with maximum effect.


Adept
 
A word about Glasers

First of all, Glasers have to actually HIT the target in order to fragment as designed. A Glaser that misses the target will still penetrate two interior walls (drywall, insulation) with enough force to wound and possibly kill a target behind the second wall.

http://www.safetyslug.com/FAQs.htm

Of course, hitting a wall stud or a shot that strikes the wall at an angle, you'll be slightly better off with a Glaser.

Check out this thread for a very involved discussion of pre-fragmented, frangible ammo like Glasers or MagSafe:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76385&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

At the time, I felt that the Glasers offered a better advantage compared to JHPs in overpenetration. I have since stopped loading Glasers since they are only slightly less dangerous if you miss and if you hit, the same thing that makes Glasers less than 100% effective (elastic retention of projectiles by the skin) also tends to stop JHP bullets from exiting the body at a dangerous velocity.
 
Prefrag rounds are expensive, but you only need enough to keep handy in case of real action. The RCBD rounds are one alternative. Lots of velocity and muzzle energy, but the "bullet" made of (if I recall correctly) lead powder and a binding substance, is supposed to vaporize on contact with a hard substance. It should not go through an apartment wall, but it should create a shallow, softball sized wound channel in a bad guy's abdomen.

http://www.rbcd.net/
 
Well, Glaser Blues ( :barf: ) offer the best "reduced" penetration of any bullet I am aware of.

I'm sure you don't want to hear this, but surely you know how much superior a shotgun is over any handgun for home defense... and when loaded with #6 or even #7 1/2 shot, you'll have less to worry about (will still hamburgerize an intruder, rest assured).
 
Glasers would probably be OK...I'd probably choose a fast 115 gr hollowpoint, and count on good shot placement ;) . Hey, I DO use 115 gr hollowpoints for defensive purposes.....don't live in an apartment, but that's still what I'd use.
 
David,

I haven't been able to find out if 9mm RCBD rounds will fragment when hitting sheetrock. They do if hitting something "hard", but I don't know what "hard" means to RCBD. Naturally they're not saying because sure enough some idiot would put a target on a common wall, blast a neighbor, and then sue RCBD.

I wish somebody would slap two pieces of sheetrock on some 2x4s to make a fake wall and test the frangibles on it.

A JHP is just liable to plug up and keep on sailing when hitting sheetrock.
 
Personal opinion here...

I'd avoid the pre-fragmented gimmick ammo myself and use a good hollowpoint. Glasers are frequently unreliable in semi-autos and cost too much for most people to reliability test them like they should. Their reputation for lethality doesn't seem to be based on actual evidence, just vague anecdotes.
 
There are two issues you have to worry about. Consider the probability of each happening, and then the ways in which you can decrease those probabilities.

1. You hit your target, bullet keeps on moving.
This rarely happens, even with FMJ, though 9mm FMJ has the highest probability of doing so. JHP's whether they expand or not, are not very likely to exit the body, unless we're talking about arm shots, or something. This is however, next to impossible in a pre-frag design. The potential problem, however is that this pre-frag bullet will fail to stop the target. Again, the odds of an attack not being stopped by a decent hit are slim, as most attackers/intruders are not very determined, there are some that are, and being prepared for them is wise.

2. You MISS your target, the bullet keeps on moving.
I believe, from what I know about pre-frags and what I've read about them, that they will offer the least threat to bystanders in this instance. FMJ, and JHP's will both penetrate to nearly the same distance through dry material. The Federal EFMJ here offers an advantage. It expands in dry material (like plywood, sheetrock), and SHOULD (though I've not seen the tests) penetrate less than a FMJ/JHP, though more than a pre-frag. The EFMJ's perform in people about as well as other JHPs.

Best bet: shotgun.

For a handgun I'd tend to recommend the EFMJ over the pre-frags in this situation, but you might be more worried about stray bullets than I am.

In either case, target practice helps to reduce the threat of wounding innocents more than bullet design.

-Morgan
 
http://www.ammoman.com has the Federal EFMJs. Click 9mm at the top of the home page, and they're about halfway down the frame page. Worth going to for the 6 photos including stop action ones of the slugs going through plywood, etc. Not a bad price -- $19 for 50.
 
I think this is more a question of bullet design and tactics combined. I suggest you memorize the layout of your pad, its strenghts and weaknesses. Beef up those spots where a stray could overpenetrate and hurt an innocent. In some cases, a form of very thick carpeting / tapestry could help stop HP's. As regards bullets, i guess the best thing to do is to test different bullet types against the material you tagged as 'most penetrable' and dangerous to innocents and select the one the performs to your expectations. Not to discredit the advertisements of some products, but i guess this is the only way to have peace of mind.

Be safe,

New_comer :cool:
 
Thanks for the responses. A shotgun probably would be too long for my apartment, since it consists of a 12x15 room with a hallway to the door and bathroom and an adjoining kitchen area. The only two possible entry points are the door and the window. If they come from the door down the hall, they'll have to make a turn at the end to get into the room. I consider that direction safe, as anything would have to travel through at least two interior walls to enter a public area. The window direction faces a wooded area that's unoccupied. All that said, I'd rather hit the target if it becomes necessary. Of course I'd rather not ever be in that situation, and don't ever expect to be. Life's all about preparing for the unexpected though.
 
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