96 Mauser blows

L

lwakefie

Inactive
Last week at the range my reloading pal gave me three mild loads to tryout. 130 gr bullets with IMR 4831, mild loads. The first two shot about like my reloads. When I fired the third all hell broke loose. When the smoke cleared my face was flash burned and bleeding and the plastic stock was blown all over the next three firing points. I was lucky as my injuries were minor. (NEVER EVER SHOOT WITHOUT SHOOTING GLASSES.) The receiver was bulged out and the bolt which was still in battery would not open. When I got home I was able to hammer it open with moderate blows to the bolt handle with a rubber mallet. The bolt face and extractor were broken and there were distorted remnants of the cartridge case lodged so tight in the chamber I could not get them out. The barrel does not look bulged. There was nothing lodged in it. My question is can I rebuild this venerable 1902 built Karl Gustafs Swede? I think a receiver and stock should do it. Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to what possibly caused this calamity?
Larry
 
Did they use some sort of fast-burning pistol powder by mistake in a rifle load? Or got distracted, thought they hadn't filled it yet, came back, filled it, and doublecharged the thing?

Now you see why I never use anyone else's handloads. I've seen too many YouTube videos where someone else's handloads detonate a rifle.

You can't know what mistakes they might have made, since you weren't there when they loaded each shell. So you're trusting your gun, fingers, and face to someone else's ability to pay attention.
 
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My question is:

1. can I rebuild this venerable 1902 built Karl Gustafs Swede? I think a receiver and stock should do it.

2. Does anyone care to hazard a guess as to what possibly caused this calamity?
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1. No. Your current barrel is probably a tomato stake. I sure wouldn't trust it after handling those pressures, once. You simlpy don't know what stretching or cracking took place. You were lucky, once.

2. 'Guess' is all anybody could do without knowing the exact load, components etc that blew the gun, the headspace of the rifle before the blow, etc Guessing would be counter-productive.

Write it off as a cheap lesson, and go on to the next rifle. Glad you weren't hurt.
 
Rule#3: When handloading for the M96 military Swede mausers, reduce max grains by 1gr. (per Speer manual IIRC).
 
Rule#3: When handloading for the M96 military Swede mausers, reduce max grains by 1gr. (per Speer manual IIRC).
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1 gr. overload ain't going to blow up a Swede. As said by other's, something else went terribly wrong. (Like shooting someone else's handloads.)
 
Sounds like a double charge to me. Could have been the wrong powder. but the truth is, you'll probably never know for sure. The others give good advice. NEVER shoot somone else's handloads. Its just asking for disaster.

Afer an episode like that, I dont think I'd use any parts from that rifle before having a good gunsmith go over it with a fine toothed comb.
 
Thanks for your replies. I am brand new to this forum and appreciate all who take the time to respond. My friend who gave me the reloads is a very meticulous reloader but of course anything is possible. He later pulled apart the remaining loads and weighed the powder charges and they were spot on. Taking the forum's advise I will not rebuild what is left of this rifle. But as I also reload I am very interested in investigating what could have caused the problem. Let's say the powder load was not excessive. The cartridge case had no discernable flaws and the bullet was a 130 grain plastic tipped bullet (read long ogive). COL was 3.03 inches. A bit long but I have fired this type bullets with no chambering problems and no signs of excessive pressure in the past. The first round went off fine. Normal recoil and report. Bullet hit three inches high. Same with the second round but I did notice black powder fowling down the side of the cartridge case. Neither primer looked cratered or excessively flattened. Then the third round identical in length detonated the rifle. The bore was not obstructed as both previousely fired bullets impacted the target. When I opened the bolt half the cartridge case was mushroomed in the chamber. The other half of the bore was clear and I could see unobstructed down the barrel.
Larry
 
In these situations you have to go with "Occam's Razor".

Occam's Razor holds that when presented with a situation, the SIMPLEST explanation is the most likely.

In this case, you could investigate all kinds of odd-ball and rare occurrences and suspicions, but the MOST likely cause is a bad hand load.

Just because the other two loads were OK, and he's an experience reloader means NOTHING.
I've seen this time after time over many years.
A gun blows and the shooter or loader looks high and low for some reason OTHER than simply getting a bad reload or a bad case.
 
I am on holiday, so I do not have the books with me, but in one of my reloading books (I believe Hornady's) it is stated VERY clear, that underlaoding rifle catridges can lead to excessive chamber pressure.
Seems logical if you think about it:
If the first impulse is not strong enough to keep the bullet moving whilst gripping the lands, and the powder burning process going on, temperatures and pressures could rise, leading to an acceleration of the burning i.e., increasing pressures to unsafe limits.

Having a swede myself, I feel the loss.
What puzzles me is the plastic stock.
There's no plastic on my 1906 m96.

"mushroomed in the chamber"? what does that look like???

BTW, no reloads but mine in my guns PERIOD.
 
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Where was the rifle sighted at before you shot these 3 rounds. The reason i ask is that you say that they were mild rounds, yet the first 2 printed 3" high. Food for thought :confused:!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I normally shoot 140 grain bullets. The reloads from my friend were 130 grains. So hitting high was to be expected. This rifle had a Ramline stock. which was perfect for all the abuse it got carrying it through the often rainy muddy mountain slopes here in Hawaii. I agree with Okums Razor and had n ot heard that quote in a long time...a good one. I digress. Yes the fault is most likely the reload. What puzzles me is what the black fowling on the side of the previous fired casing might be telling me. I had already fired 20 rounds so at the time just figured the chamber was getting dirty. I wonder now if the markings could have been an indication of a bad cartridge-wall-to-chamber seal allowing gas reversion. If so could the previous round have caused a condition for the next round to rupture so violently? I may have lead some folks astray when I said it was a mild load. I did not mean it was a severely reduced load, just not a hot load. Powder fill is normally about 90% :confused:
 
Hmmm. A light load with light bullets using IMR-4831. Has anybody considered this might be a case of S.E.E.? (Secondary Explosion Effect) It would have been impossible to throw a double charge of any form of 4831 into the cartridge case; not enough room.
If S.E.E. doesn't sound right, try P.E.P. (Pressure Excursion Phenomenon) or D.D.T. (Deflagration to Detonation Transition). Regards less of what name you want to use, that's what I think happened. Too light of a charge of a too slow burning powder. bad business all round.
Paul B.
 
I don't see a mention of what the load was supposed to be. Was it light enough for a double charge?

The black on the cases is indication of a pressure so low that it did not even obturate the case and powder gas flowed back along the sides. That happens only with extremely light charges, so right away, a "mild" or "just not a hot" load seems unlikely. The high bullet strike also indicates a light load, as the barrel time allowed greater recoil effect and threw the bullets high.

But there is a contradiction here. A charge of 4831 under 25 grains would not be dangerous if double charged, and a charge over that if double charged would probably not fit in the case.

Based on that, I suspect two problems. One is that the powder was not 4831 but a faster powder, like 2400, and the other is that a double charge sent the pressure way up. (Does your friend load for .44 Magnum or something like that?)

Like Dfariswheel, I like simple explanations, which is why I hesitate to mention an old speculation. That is that light loads in a rifle can somehow result in "detonation" of the powder, supposedly when the charge is so light that the primer flame can flash over and ignite the whole powder charge at the same time.

Again supposedly, this causes some sort of "detonation" that blows up rifles. It sounds plausible, but thousands of attempts by the powder companies, rifle makers, primer makers, the NRA, and others have not succeeded in causing such "detonation" under controlled and repeatable conditions. So, I can't say "myth busted" but only "myth not confirmed" by repeated testing.

But one lesson is plain. Shoot only your own reloads; that way, if something goes wrong, you know the name and address of the SOB who goofed!

Jim
 
blow-up

Kind Sir:
Welcome to the forum!

Yes, NEVER, NEVER use anothers handloads. Yes, one grain of powder can raise pressures thousands of C.U.Ps' I think you should just buy another rifle.
And, yes it could have been a reduced, slow powder load, that suffered detonation. That Swede is rated at about 48,000 CUP. pressure. But the swede, made in Germand or Sweden will take far more than that! Your load must have been in the 70,000 plus C.U.P. pressures.
I heard of one fellow that somehow converted one to 264 mag, but wonder about that.
What we must realize is that most military actions are designed to take pressures twice that of the cases ability to survive!
The 6.5X55 is a fine cartridge and so is the 260 Rem, but you're dealing with small cases - you won't get more than 2500-2600 fps, until you go to the 6.5X06! (140 gr, bullett)
Harry B.
P.S. There are many reasons for a blow-up - we're just guessing.
 
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