92 Year Old Woman Defends Home

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Woman, 92, dies in shootout with police
POSTED: 8:23 a.m. EST, November 22, 2006
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/22/woman.shot.ap/index.html
ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- Narcotics officers were justified in returning fire on a 92-year-old woman they shot to death as they tried to serve a warrant at her house, a police official said. Neighbors and relatives said it was a case of mistaken identity. But police said the woman, identified as Kathryn Johnston, was the only resident in the house at the time and had lived there for about 17 years. Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door. He said they were justified in shooting once they were fired upon.

~

I am extremely sad for this woman.
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I hope Chief Dreher looses his job.
This sort of bust-in mentality has to stop...

Where in warrant does it say bust in?
 
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I am extremely happy for officers shot.
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o_O seriously?

So if the police have a warrant to search your home for evidence of a crime and you're not there...they're supposed to call back and schedule an appointment? Chances are the woman simply didn't hear them knock and announce, the cops assumed no one was home and legally served the warrant by coming in. They were fired upon, took action, big ole charlie foxtrot for everyone involved.

I don't blame the old woman or the cops. I blame the stupid War on Drugs and every fool that supports it.
 
I'm not happy that the officers got shot, but I do feel that their actions contributed to it. This lady lived in the same house for years. From all reports, the neighborhood had gone downhill, to the point where it's not at all uncommon to hear gunfire at night. Three guys in street clothes start banging on her door in the dark of the night, yelling "Police!" They don't wait for her to answer the door, but start trying to kick it in.

From what I understand, she had no way to know if they were real cops or home invaders. I would probably do the same.
 
Powderman said:
Clarify, please?
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Note that innocent old woman is dead. Why? Because the police made a mistake. Is this the first time police have made this mistake? Hardly. Do you think they'll learn from it? Doubtful. So where does that leave innocent civilians who happen to be served mistaken warrants? In the line of fire.

Sorry... I have had quite enough of this ATF style bust in law enforcement. A few minutes of time would have been all that is necessary to save a life here... my patience is at end with law enforcement of the three-stooge variety...
 
When police act indistinguishably from home-invasion robbers, you can count on plenty of charlie foxtrots like this one as long as the War on Some Drugs continues.

I read in another report that the officers were plain clothes. If true, this puts the responsibility for their deaths squarely at their own feet, and any of them survived they should be charged with negligent homicide.
 
Sorry... I have had quite enough of this ATF style bust in law enforcement. A few minutes of time would have been all that is necessary to save a life here... my patience is at end with law enforcement of the three-stooge variety...
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How do you know they busted in without waiting those few minutes? If the woman didn't hear them knock and announce the cops were probably under the impression that no one was home. Correct me if I'm wrong but an unoccupied home does not invalidate a search warrant.


The blame here lies with the drug war. Both cops and Grandma are victims of a stupid policy that Uncle Sam gets to tell us what can go into our bodies perpetuated by anti-drug cops, politicians and civilians alike who feel they also have the authority not only to tell us what we can put into our bodies but that our worldly possessions are theirs for taking because of it.
 
Redworm said:
How do you know they busted in without waiting those few minutes?
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Apparently they didn't wait long enough... tell you what though... when you are 92 years old time yourself getting out of bed, walking downstairs and opening door in the middle of night. See if you can do it in under 5 minutes!

Redworm said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but an unoccupied home does not invalidate a search warrant.
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It apparently wasn't "unoccupied" was it?

Redworm said:
The blame here lies with the drug war.
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Oh sure...blame the problem and let the rookies slide... that works! :rolleyes: Here's an idea... send a few cops to scout the site before you bust in... reconnaissance pays dividens in the long run!!!

Sorry... all about this case strikes me as rookie law enforcement... I'm not one to typically wish ill upon police officers but as I said, I have had quite enough of this "bust-in" mentality and if it takes a few shootings to make law enforcement change their policy than that's what it takes!
 
Apparently they didn't wait long enough... tell you what though... when you are 92 years old time yourself getting out of bed, walking downstairs and opening door in the middle of night. See if you can do it in under 5 minutes!
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We don't know how long they waited. For all we know she didn't hear them in the first place.

It apparently wasn't "unoccupied" was it?
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That doesn't change the fact that if the officers believed the home was unoccupied they were justified in serving the warrant.

h sure...blame the problem and let the rookies slide... that works! Here's an idea... send a few cops to scout the site before you bust in... reconnaissance pays dividens in the long run!!!

Sorry... all about this case strikes me as rookie law enforcement... I'm not one to typically wish ill upon police officers but as I said, I have had quite enough of this "bust-in" mentality and if it takes a few shootings to make law enforcement change their policy than that's what it takes!
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Yes you blame the problem! Don't blame your runny nose for the virus that's giving you a cold. This is a symptom of the problem.

Hey, maybe those were the cops sent to scout the site. Maybe they were the ones sent to make sure there wasn't a gang armed to the teeth with assault rifles. Maybe it was something entirely different but we don't know what was on the warrant, do we? So we're all pretty much just making assumptions.
 
Shooting at the police is a bad idea...
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Just because someone in street clothes who has just kicked in your door is shouting "Police! Police!" and waving a shiny badge that he could have bought at Toys-Я-Us doesn't automatically mean he's really a police officer.

Is it policy in Atlanta to allow plain-clothes officers to serve warrants?
 
mvpel said:
Quote:Is it policy in Atlanta to allow plain-clothes officers to serve warrants?
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Unknown... the article cited didn't answer all my questions... Typical search warrant procedure is to notify occupants first in some way and if officers are in plain clothes that can't really be done can it?

There are also Constitutional issues here under the Bill of Rights in my estimation where victim's relatives have a valid suit against Atlanta, GA law enforcement bearing upon a combination of Constitutional rights; i.e., "3. unlawful quarter in private homes" and "4. Prohibited unreasonable searches and seizures" and "5. be deprived of life, liberty or property without "due process of law" as opposed to a duly Court-ordered search warrant (normal fed rules) legally executed, which doesn't seem to include "busting in" does it? I believe most court-ordered subpoenas and search warrants require law enforcement to serve the warrant and have compelling need to forcefully enter a premise without permission... Was the homeowner notified in advance? There seems to be a gray area here unanswerd in original artilce on this incident... I understand that even a search warrant from a federal magistrate judge authorizing a search of the house requires some approval of occupants, if present.
 
This is an idea I just had that would eliminate quite a few "problems".

If you "knock and announce", you have to wait for either the homeowner to answer the door, or some clue that funkiness is happening inside.

However I think the police should be able to immediately burst in, if it's seconds after a 160db, PA announced over huge horn speaker "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT" accompanied with strobe lights aimed through the windows, and every second MUST BE VIDEOTAPED by camera on the officers' helmets.

There has to be accountability. If there is not, people will continue to be shot, period.
 
We don't know why a warrant was being served? The article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution mentioned that the police were carrying out bags of what one would assume is evidence after the shooting.

It is police procedure to return fire if fired upon. Who would be a policeman if you could not return fire?

The question of whether their actions were appropriate depends on what the warrant was issued for.
 
I recall a black man living next door to a drug dealer. He had obtained a pistol, because he feared the criminals. The police came to make a bust. They kicked in the wrong door and this man tried to defend himself from the neighbors, or so he thought. The police killed him. Yeah, I would say that the war on drugs is a problem. Heck, anytime our own government declares war on it's citizens for any reason it is a problem. Government agents are our servants. It is absurd to have your servants declaring war upon their employers.

One day the people will figure out that they are not really free, they will understand that they are not the masters of their destiny, only slaves to a system of their own design. Keep trading liberty for security. Keep placing civil servants (police) above the people and you will get what you deserve. Careful what you wish for , you may just get it. Sad to say that as a good citizen, I have as much to fear from police as I do the drug dealers. I would think that putting oneself into rehab is better than being forced to do so. It is much like education. If you want it you will get it and do well at it, if you don't it won't happen. I may be wrong... but in my opinion new laws only create new criminals.

Addicts by my definition cannot stop the use of a drug because they may die from stopping. All the old folks that must take government approved drugs to keep themselves alive, are in a strange way are legal addicts. Adds new meaning to Dependant. Uncle Sam is a pusher if you will. Alcohol is a drug approved by the government. Yes we had prohibition. It made bootlegging very profitable for the "Gangsters". If they ended the war on drugs it would have the same effect, over time, as the end of prohibition.
 
One thing I don't understand is why the police can't be smarter about these things. For example, why can't they pretentd to be the mail man needing a signature for a certified letter or the UPS guy with the wrong address? There are a bunch of differnt things that the police can pose as including food delivery drivers with the wrong address, sales people, hare krishnas :eek:

I challenge all police officers on this forum to bring up this tactic to their superiors.

I just think this kind of crap needs to stop happening. Maybe a little more surveillance is necessary to watch and track the movements of the suspect. To get the wrong frigging house is NOT acceptable.

Redworm... I do blame the cops... not the war on drugs. That is just plain sloppy police work. If it was your grandmother that got shot, you sure as hell would blame the police. Just like in any other profession, people need to be held accountable for sloppy work. Do you blame the patient for needing surgery if the patient dies because the doctor left a scalple in him? Do you blame a passenger's need to travel if an airline mechanic does a sloppy job and a plane goes down? Police officers are given much responsibility and authority. They need to be careful because these are life and death situations we are talking about. Somebody's grandmother got killed due to their negligance. Put the blame where it belongs! :mad:
 
None of you all know why the warrant was being served. This woman may have had a meth lab in her house which is why she had the bars. I know of one 80 yr old lady who's son had a meth lab in her house. So it happens. Simply put, you don't know the facts and you can't make a judgement about the police without the facts.
 
This is a copy of the story I read:

ATLANTA(AP) A police official said narcotics officers were justified in returning fire on a 92-year-old woman they shot to death after she shot them as they tried to serve a warrant at her house.

Neighbors and relatives said it was a case of mistaken identity. But police said the woman, identified as Kathryn Johnston, was the only resident in the house at the time and had lived there for about 17 years.

Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said the officers had a legal warrant and "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door. He said they were justified in shooting once they were fired upon.

As the plainclothes Atlanta police officers approached the house about 7 p.m., a woman inside started shooting, striking each of them, said Officer Joe Cobb, a police spokesman.
One was hit in the arm, another in a thigh and the third in a shoulder. The officers were taken to a hospital for treatment, and all three were conscious and alert, police said.

Sarah Dozier, identified as a niece of the woman, told WAGA-TV that there were never any drugs at the house.

"My aunt was in good health. I'm sure she panicked when they kicked that door down," Dozier said. "There was no reason they had to go in there and shoot her down like a dog."

Rev. Markel Hutchins, a civil rights leader, said Johnston's family deserves an apology.

"Of the police brutality cases we've had, this is the most egregious because of the woman's age," Hutchins said.

Hutchins said he would try to meet with Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington and would also meet with lawyers.
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Apparently according to THIS account, the 92yr old woman was the pre-emptive aggressor in this situation and she escalated it to its final end.
 
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