8mm Variations

8

'88Scrat

New member
So I have a beautiful M48 Mauser I bought a while back but have yet to shoot it. Mostly because there seem to be so many variations on 8mm ammo it makes my head spin.

In simple terms: what is the closest to a FULL POWER (not that half load 160-something grain crap at Cabela's) 8mm cartridge I can use in my M48 that is A) Somewhat affordable and B) preferably not some East Bloc surplus that is probably corrosive.

Tall order here but pretty as it is I didn't buy it just to look at it.

Thanks!
 
For domestic ammo: Hornady Vintage Match 196 gr or Hornady Custom 195 gr Interlock.
It's the only American-made 8x57mm ammo that I am aware of, that is loaded to CIP standards instead of SAAMI's low pressure.

For import ammo: S&B 196 gr SP or FMJ.
It's loaded to CIP specs, instead of SAAMI, and has a bit more to it than standard fodder.

In my opinion, PPU ammo (and brass) is superior to S&B, but it seems to be loaded a bit weak for the U.S. market.

RWS also load some good stuff (full power), but I haven't seen it imported for quite some time. It probably is still imported. I just haven't seen it (even online).
 
its a good cartige for reloading., i have a very nice 8mm german 98 mauser that was sporterized by a local gunsmith in the 60,s that i bought for a very low price(200.00 scoped) that i was going to rip apart for the action, but after shooting it i decided to keep it. i have shot 3" groups at 200 yards from a bench, with my reloads. eastbank.
 
"...variations on 8mm ammo..." For you, there's 8 x 57 or 8mm Mauser IS/JS and everything else 8mm.
In hunting ammo it's available from Hornady, Prvi, Winchester, Norma, Nosler, Sellier and Bellot and Federal via Midway(some of 'em are on 'back order ok', 'no back order' or 'unavailable limited production'.). Graf's adds a few brands including a Romanian lacquered steel cased, Berdan primed 170 grain FMJ, Pendleton brand from Oregon and Lapua brand that's twice as expensive. as just about everything.
'Affordable' is relative.
Like FrankenMauser says, W.W. II vintage military ball used a 196 grain bullet. Not having a 196 doesn't mean it's "half load 160-something grain crap' though.
 
FrankenMauser,

I have seen some of the S & B around here before that seemed pretty affordable. What's the difference between IS or JS? Or more pertantnly which would better suit my rifle?
 
Same thing. Take your pick.
Just make sure that the ammunition specifies S, JS, IS, or ".323" bullets.

As for the confusion...
The original designation was "IS".
But, as the story goes, some dumb Americans interpreted the I as a "J", and dubbed it 8x57mmJS.
Over time, some European ammo makers actually adopted "JS" as well (whether calling it 7.92x57mm or 8x57mm).



Neither should be confused with anything that includes an R at the end, such as 8x57mmJRS or 7.92x57mmR. That designates 8mm Mauser Rimmed, for single-shots, double-barrel rifles, or Drillings.
 
But, as the story goes, some dumb Americans interpreted the I as a "J", and dubbed it 8x57mmJS.
Click to expand...

Until the late 30's there was only one letter between H and K. I or J will work altho I is probably closer. At any rate I (or J) 8 MM was designed for a .318 bore. S and derivatives thereof are for a .323 bore.
 
T. O'Heir said:
For you, there's 8 x 57 or 8mm Mauser IS/JS and everything else 8mm.
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Actually, no.

When the 8X57 was introduced, it had a 0.318 bore, and was later changed to .323, and because of this, most of the ammo you can get in the US is crap.

US manufacturers were afraid some dimwit would try and shoot a full power .323 through their .318 bore Gewehr 88 and blow up the gun, and hurt themselves. Europeans figured if you don't know what ammo your gun can safely shoot, you are a moron and deserve whatever happens to you.

Regardless, there are two specifications for what we call 8mm Mauser, the US SAMMI spec "8MM Mauser", which has a max pressure of 35K psi, and the CIP "8x57 IS" which has a max pressure of ~56K psi. To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Generally, what you can get in the US is "8MM Mauser", and it the anemic SAMMI spec.

Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ s.S. Patrone military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US.

Wolf Gold is a decent hunting bullet made by Privi and loaded to 8x57 IS specs, 196 gr SP @ 2461 fps, but I haven't seen it around in a while.

Remington's and Winchester's only offerings is 170 gr @ 2360fps. Federal's only option is even wimpier 170gr @ 2250 FPS.

Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the original military load.

Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.

Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.

T. O'Heir said:
Not having a 196 doesn't mean it's "half load 160-something grain crap' though.
Click to expand...

It is not crap becasue of the bullet weight, it is cap because it is underpowered crap.
 
Quote:
For import ammo: S&B 196 gr SP or FMJ.
Stay away from S&B

too many people I encounter have trouble with it, in all sorts of guns
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My personal experience is the exact opposite.
All of the 7.92x57 S&B ammo I put thru my K98 and yugos was accurate enough, full power 196 grain. Both the FMJ and the soft point worked way better than any of the military surplus I tried.
 
Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ s.S. Patrone military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US.
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That's a negative on lack of PPU availability.

MidwayUSA and several other online retailers offer the CIP loads.
And, I can even pick it up locally. (In a podunk city in Idaho, at that.)
 
That's a negative on lack of PPU availability.

MidwayUSA and several other online retailers offer the CIP loads.
And, I can even pick it up locally. (In a podunk city in Idaho, at that.)
Click to expand...
Got a link?

Does the box say "8mm Mauser", or "8x87 IS"? All I see on midway's web site is the wimpy stuff, all of them are listed as around 2100FPS, compared to ~2400 for the good stuff.

Here is the good stuff, in France:
http://www.armurerie-boichut-balagu...rtizan-calibre-8x57-is-198gr-fmj-bt,2226.html

Here is the ballistics for the PPU "8MM Mauser": https://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-022 665 M/S = 2181 FPS

And here is the "8x87 IS": https://www.prvipartizan.com/search_rb.php?id=A-213 740 M/S = 2427 FPS.
 
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