870 Plastic Trigger Group?
- Thread starter mathman
- Start date
No.
You are in reference to newer ones like 870 Express?
Traditional Wood & Blue Person I am...
Let me share something if I may. Now I like and still prefer OLDer guns for metallurgy, the soul of the wood, the craftsmanship and such. I prefer the machined steel days of old as well.
That Said [tm]
I bought one of them new 870 Expresses a few years ago, basically because Academy Sports had them for $199 less $25 Rem rebate. I also wanted to see what all the fussing was about I was hearing an reading on forums.
Now I recall the Rem Nylon 66 back when it came out...a friggin plastic gun. The darn gun worked, one could NOT tear it up, did not require much maintenence and the darn gun after all these years - PLASTIC - mind you is still sought after and folks kicking themselves for getting rid of one.
First thing that ticked me off and I changed was the J hook safety on mine. Matter of principle, and politics. Guns do not need locks. The owner uses 4Rules of safety - period.
I also had snicked a gun "locked" without the key. I can do this in the blink of an eye with my fingers. Reliabilty is paramount with me. The idea of having a key for a gun is stupid. Imagine bird hunting, snicking the gun "locked" and not having a key. Alleviate the problem of a key and one less something to worry about.
My 870 is bone stock - except for the safety being changed out. I see the trigger guard you are talking about. I also know about the mag tube with dimple, the not having the ball detent in bbl ring for old style mag cap , orange plastic mag follower...all and everything everyone is fussing about.
I have run my gun and hard. I mean 200 rds of slugs in one day. I have run it 200 rds easy in one day many times. I have let folks use my gun for a day(s) and who know how many rds went thru it by different folks.
Left it dirty for 5k rounds (okay I did leave together, cleaned chamber only, pipe cleaner for extractor and bolt face) shot in rain, snow, blistering heat, freezing temps, not cleaned it to see how long it would run. It runs. I have run it bone dry,over lubricated, and then tossed sand in the mag tub "just knowing" that orange plastic mag follower would fail - it didn't.
My deductions-
I have seen the aftermarket mag followers fail and get chewed up. I have seen the guns "modified" and fail, metal parts, or new fangled plastic ones - made no nevermind.
My goal was to find the weakness and then fuss to high heavens.
The Factory gun weakness is NOT the trigger guard. The weakness is NOT the plastic.
Weaknesses ARE :
-That stupid J hook safety , which is no longer being used.
-That MIM extractor used in the bolt.
Now my original extractor is still running strong. I do have an extra OLD bolt with the OLD machined steel extractor in it. Mine ever fails, I change the comlete bolt, get the OLD extractor to replace the MIM one and back to having a spare.
I am not the only one whom has tried to get a factory 870 with the 'new' stuff to fail and it would not. WE all agree - the J hook safety had to go.
I am one of the resident fuddy duds. I am Practical and Traditional - I do not deny this. I want my guns to run everytime. I know deviation from original leads to something else needing adjusted - then the domino theory starts.
All I need is a short bbl for my gun. I still use the 28" for everything. I prefer external knurled chokes because 1) keeps the muzzle from getting dinged, 2) I hate the idea of having to have a stupid wrench to keep up with.
I have over 200K thru a bone stock Win SX1 - still running.
My 28 ga 870 skeet gun was lost in a fire. It was used when I got it. I have no idea the round count. It went to Rem once for a mag tube. It was 25 years old, got dented in travel, gun must of had 200k thru it easy. I miss that gun real bad. The guy I bought it from used it for the 28 event back when folks shot 4 guns of the same make ( 4 870s in his case) for skeet. He figures he ran 20K rds a year in 28 ga alone for years.
My Rem 66s never failed. Plastic guns do not do well in fires. Other than that, mine always ran - plastic and all.
I'm not going to worry about it. I still prefer the OLD guns. I do have this newer one , with that "trigger guard" and that is NOT the guns weak spot for sure. This one I use for everything. Decided to quit putting character in some of my others, they earned some slipper time and retirement perks.
Run'em
Steve
You are in reference to newer ones like 870 Express?
Traditional Wood & Blue Person I am...
Let me share something if I may. Now I like and still prefer OLDer guns for metallurgy, the soul of the wood, the craftsmanship and such. I prefer the machined steel days of old as well.
That Said [tm]
I bought one of them new 870 Expresses a few years ago, basically because Academy Sports had them for $199 less $25 Rem rebate. I also wanted to see what all the fussing was about I was hearing an reading on forums.
Now I recall the Rem Nylon 66 back when it came out...a friggin plastic gun. The darn gun worked, one could NOT tear it up, did not require much maintenence and the darn gun after all these years - PLASTIC - mind you is still sought after and folks kicking themselves for getting rid of one.
First thing that ticked me off and I changed was the J hook safety on mine. Matter of principle, and politics. Guns do not need locks. The owner uses 4Rules of safety - period.
I also had snicked a gun "locked" without the key. I can do this in the blink of an eye with my fingers. Reliabilty is paramount with me. The idea of having a key for a gun is stupid. Imagine bird hunting, snicking the gun "locked" and not having a key. Alleviate the problem of a key and one less something to worry about.
My 870 is bone stock - except for the safety being changed out. I see the trigger guard you are talking about. I also know about the mag tube with dimple, the not having the ball detent in bbl ring for old style mag cap , orange plastic mag follower...all and everything everyone is fussing about.
I have run my gun and hard. I mean 200 rds of slugs in one day. I have run it 200 rds easy in one day many times. I have let folks use my gun for a day(s) and who know how many rds went thru it by different folks.
Left it dirty for 5k rounds (okay I did leave together, cleaned chamber only, pipe cleaner for extractor and bolt face) shot in rain, snow, blistering heat, freezing temps, not cleaned it to see how long it would run. It runs. I have run it bone dry,over lubricated, and then tossed sand in the mag tub "just knowing" that orange plastic mag follower would fail - it didn't.
My deductions-
I have seen the aftermarket mag followers fail and get chewed up. I have seen the guns "modified" and fail, metal parts, or new fangled plastic ones - made no nevermind.
My goal was to find the weakness and then fuss to high heavens.
The Factory gun weakness is NOT the trigger guard. The weakness is NOT the plastic.
Weaknesses ARE :
-That stupid J hook safety , which is no longer being used.
-That MIM extractor used in the bolt.
Now my original extractor is still running strong. I do have an extra OLD bolt with the OLD machined steel extractor in it. Mine ever fails, I change the comlete bolt, get the OLD extractor to replace the MIM one and back to having a spare.
I am not the only one whom has tried to get a factory 870 with the 'new' stuff to fail and it would not. WE all agree - the J hook safety had to go.
I am one of the resident fuddy duds. I am Practical and Traditional - I do not deny this. I want my guns to run everytime. I know deviation from original leads to something else needing adjusted - then the domino theory starts.
All I need is a short bbl for my gun. I still use the 28" for everything. I prefer external knurled chokes because 1) keeps the muzzle from getting dinged, 2) I hate the idea of having to have a stupid wrench to keep up with.
I have over 200K thru a bone stock Win SX1 - still running.
My 28 ga 870 skeet gun was lost in a fire. It was used when I got it. I have no idea the round count. It went to Rem once for a mag tube. It was 25 years old, got dented in travel, gun must of had 200k thru it easy. I miss that gun real bad. The guy I bought it from used it for the 28 event back when folks shot 4 guns of the same make ( 4 870s in his case) for skeet. He figures he ran 20K rds a year in 28 ga alone for years.
My Rem 66s never failed. Plastic guns do not do well in fires. Other than that, mine always ran - plastic and all.
I'm not going to worry about it. I still prefer the OLD guns. I do have this newer one , with that "trigger guard" and that is NOT the guns weak spot for sure. This one I use for everything. Decided to quit putting character in some of my others, they earned some slipper time and retirement perks.
Run'em
Steve
rellascout
Moderator
SM,
I agree 100 %. I too prefer Wood ans Blue but I bought my wife a 870 Express 20 GA with the plastic trigrer guard. We have beat the thing to hell and had no issues.
In fact even with all the complaing about he plastic trigger guard I have never heard or seen on that has cracked.
The mag dimples can be easily removed with a dremel.
My problem with the 870 express is that the final fit and finish are not as good as the older 870 Police and wingmasters.
I agree 100 %. I too prefer Wood ans Blue but I bought my wife a 870 Express 20 GA with the plastic trigrer guard. We have beat the thing to hell and had no issues.
In fact even with all the complaing about he plastic trigger guard I have never heard or seen on that has cracked.
The mag dimples can be easily removed with a dremel.
My problem with the 870 express is that the final fit and finish are not as good as the older 870 Police and wingmasters.
. But I sure will change out that darn J hook safety...I already have three guns with that and I really don't like it. I am the gun's safety. 
Dfariswheel
New member
To answer the original question:
An aluminum trigger plate is a drop-in replacement.
You can get these on Ebay, and occasionally other sources as used items.
Otherwise, a new aluminum guard is expensive.
The plastic guard appears to be as strong, durable, and long lasting as the aluminum.
As for very long-term durability, it'll be some years before the jury is in.
It does have some advantages over aluminum:
It has no finish to wear off and get ratty looking.
Aluminum breaks and bends if bumped, and may make the gun unusable.
Plastic bends, flexes, and tends to spring back into near-original shape. To break the guard requires a considerable amount of force.
Plastic is self-lubricating, so you need only enough lube to lubricate the steel moving parts, plus enough to prevent rust or corrosion.
In actual field service, it looks like the only real complaint anyone has is, it isn't aluminum.
When the 870 was introduced in 1950, people complained that the trigger plate was aluminum and not steel.
The only problem I've seen on the plastic guards is, there are a few that have a lifter that is off-center in the receiver and may drag against one receiver wall.
This seems to be more the fault of a warped lifter than the trigger plate.
Bottom line: As it stands now, the plastic trigger plate is a non-issue.
An aluminum trigger plate is a drop-in replacement.
You can get these on Ebay, and occasionally other sources as used items.
Otherwise, a new aluminum guard is expensive.
The plastic guard appears to be as strong, durable, and long lasting as the aluminum.
As for very long-term durability, it'll be some years before the jury is in.
It does have some advantages over aluminum:
It has no finish to wear off and get ratty looking.
Aluminum breaks and bends if bumped, and may make the gun unusable.
Plastic bends, flexes, and tends to spring back into near-original shape. To break the guard requires a considerable amount of force.
Plastic is self-lubricating, so you need only enough lube to lubricate the steel moving parts, plus enough to prevent rust or corrosion.
In actual field service, it looks like the only real complaint anyone has is, it isn't aluminum.
When the 870 was introduced in 1950, people complained that the trigger plate was aluminum and not steel.
The only problem I've seen on the plastic guards is, there are a few that have a lifter that is off-center in the receiver and may drag against one receiver wall.
This seems to be more the fault of a warped lifter than the trigger plate.
Bottom line: As it stands now, the plastic trigger plate is a non-issue.
Plastic trigger plates came along a bit after the magazine tube dimples appeared, I don't know a specific date when the change was made. After 2000 sometime if my guesser is working OK. There are LOTS of good used 870 Express guns out there with no mag tube dimples and aluminum trigger plates- adopt a good Cinderella gun and give it a home, then you can avoid the new issue versions with dimples, plastic and MIM parts.
So far I have seen no evidence that the plastic trigger plates are any more of a liability than the aluminum ones. Time will tell on that one. If they do prove not to be durable enough there are aluminum replacemet assemblies available, I see them on eBay for $25- 50 each. If you want a spare be sure to get an assembly and not a stripped trigger plate, building one is not a DIY job.
I have a couple of Express guns which I bought used that have plastic trigger plates, if the price is right I will still pick one up (price has to be VERY right nowadays tho, the retirement income stream does not flow as abundantly as the salary income stream did). I don't particularly like them either but am not willing to change them out unless they break. I did decide not to buy any more, just wait until an older Express shows up without the new "features" if I need another one (and I always do need another one). Nothing wrong with Express guns at all, fit will wear in and finish is no big deal on a working gun, all mine are for 'go' and not 'show.' And I am no 870 snob, I like finding a good used one for less than the chinese copies cost new.
I have replacement trigger plates in the parts bin, just in case, other stuff too. A couple of replacement magazine springs, a complete replacement bolt assembly, a couple of spare barrels and a complete replacement trigger plate assembly pretty much guarantee your 870 will run for two more generations beyond your grandson with no gunsmithing needed that you can't do yourself. Just be nice to the magazine tube, don't dent it and if you want to use a magazine extension use a clamp too.
I agree that the J- hook safety has to go- I know where Steve got his replacement 8^). Do yourself a favor and replace the safety spring and detent at the same time, with the old style ones- you can get 'em from Brownells. It'll work better with the old style safety button.
lpl/nc ('nother olphart 870 shooter)
So far I have seen no evidence that the plastic trigger plates are any more of a liability than the aluminum ones. Time will tell on that one. If they do prove not to be durable enough there are aluminum replacemet assemblies available, I see them on eBay for $25- 50 each. If you want a spare be sure to get an assembly and not a stripped trigger plate, building one is not a DIY job.
I have a couple of Express guns which I bought used that have plastic trigger plates, if the price is right I will still pick one up (price has to be VERY right nowadays tho, the retirement income stream does not flow as abundantly as the salary income stream did). I don't particularly like them either but am not willing to change them out unless they break. I did decide not to buy any more, just wait until an older Express shows up without the new "features" if I need another one (and I always do need another one). Nothing wrong with Express guns at all, fit will wear in and finish is no big deal on a working gun, all mine are for 'go' and not 'show.' And I am no 870 snob, I like finding a good used one for less than the chinese copies cost new.
I have replacement trigger plates in the parts bin, just in case, other stuff too. A couple of replacement magazine springs, a complete replacement bolt assembly, a couple of spare barrels and a complete replacement trigger plate assembly pretty much guarantee your 870 will run for two more generations beyond your grandson with no gunsmithing needed that you can't do yourself. Just be nice to the magazine tube, don't dent it and if you want to use a magazine extension use a clamp too.
I agree that the J- hook safety has to go- I know where Steve got his replacement 8^). Do yourself a favor and replace the safety spring and detent at the same time, with the old style ones- you can get 'em from Brownells. It'll work better with the old style safety button.
lpl/nc ('nother olphart 870 shooter)
OK, I have another related question (but I don't want to start a new thread).
I know that the new magazines with the dimple also have a new locking system for the magazine cap...so my question is this. Do the new barrels still have the little ball that the old magazine cap used to lock in to? I beleive it is called a 'detent ball'. My reason for asking is that if you have an older 870 (without the magazine dimples) and want to put on a new barrel on it, will that new barrel work on the older 870?
Am I making sense to anyone out there? Thanks again for your responses and future responses.
I know that the new magazines with the dimple also have a new locking system for the magazine cap...so my question is this. Do the new barrels still have the little ball that the old magazine cap used to lock in to? I beleive it is called a 'detent ball'. My reason for asking is that if you have an older 870 (without the magazine dimples) and want to put on a new barrel on it, will that new barrel work on the older 870?
Am I making sense to anyone out there? Thanks again for your responses and future responses.
Dfariswheel
New member
It looks like Remington is selling Wingmaster-specific barrels for the Wingmaster and older guns, and Express-specific barrels for the Express guns.
A new, complete Express gun's barrel has no detent plunger installed.
Up until about 5 years or so ago, Remington was drilling the detent hole in Express barrels, but didn't install the spring and detent plunger.
About 5 years ago, they stopped even drilling the hole, so no detent can be installed.
The Remington web site has a spare barrel section, and they list Wingmaster barrels, and Express barrels.
So, I'd guess that if you have a gun with the older style magazine assembly, or a current Wingmaster or Police gun, you buy a Wingmaster barrel.
If you have an Express, you'd buy an Express barrel.
A new, complete Express gun's barrel has no detent plunger installed.
Up until about 5 years or so ago, Remington was drilling the detent hole in Express barrels, but didn't install the spring and detent plunger.
About 5 years ago, they stopped even drilling the hole, so no detent can be installed.
The Remington web site has a spare barrel section, and they list Wingmaster barrels, and Express barrels.
So, I'd guess that if you have a gun with the older style magazine assembly, or a current Wingmaster or Police gun, you buy a Wingmaster barrel.
If you have an Express, you'd buy an Express barrel.
Dfariswheel nailed it. My police-trainer wears an Express barrel that came with the hole but no detent. When I sent that gun to ARS for coating, they install a spring and ball in the barrel for me. I have a couple rifle-sighted Express barrels with no detent but with the hole. The only barrel that I own that has no detent hole is the new 26" Express rem-choked barrel that I bought a couple years ago. I was quite surprised when it arrived sans-hole.
In any case, you can use a barrel without the detent with an older cap but you'll need to check the tightness of the cap on a regular basis. I tend to do this with all my 870's anyway so it's no big deal. If you are running an extension AND A CLAMP, the likelihood of the barrel loosening will be less.
Mike
In any case, you can use a barrel without the detent with an older cap but you'll need to check the tightness of the cap on a regular basis. I tend to do this with all my 870's anyway so it's no big deal. If you are running an extension AND A CLAMP, the likelihood of the barrel loosening will be less.
Mike