870 Bbl Length for Turkey, Duck and Upland Game Birds?

S

Shawn Dodson

Moderator
I've gotten hooked watching the hunting and outdoor shows on The Nashville Network on Saturday mornings. I haven't hunted in years, but watching these shows are beginning to stir my interest in hunting turkey, duck and upland game birds (probably next hunting season, not this one).

I have an 870P that I'd like to press into service as a hunting gun too. I intend to purchase a new RemChoke barrel, but I don't know what would be a good multipurpose barrel length to use for turkey, duck and upland bird. Anyone else here hunt with an 870? What barrel length (and choke) would you recommend for each application. Thanks!

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Anywhere between 26" and 30" would do the job. If you can try putting several different lengths on your gun and pick the one that handles best. Your gun with feel very different with the weight of a rib and up to a foot of extra barrel. I like quickness of a shorter barrel for upland and longer for the longer goose and duck shots. The compromise would be the 28" and it would serve well.

I would go with improved cylinder for upland game. You'll be shooting steel at waterfowl so no tighter than modified and for turkey the usual choice is full or extra full.

You might also think about taking your gun out to the local skeet and trap range. Use the IC for skeet and the modified for 16 yard trap. Lot's of fun and good practice with your new barrel.

[This message has been edited by PJR (edited September 10, 2000).]
 
Seen your posts, Shawn, it's strange to be giving YOU advice!

My bird 870 has a 21" bbl,and works well for everything except for long distance pass shooting, which I skip since steel shot was mandated.Too much chance of crippling them.

This 870 has about the same sight radius and length as a 28" bbled double. I've used bbls up to 30" in the field, and probably the best for most folks is 28" or 26".

As for chokes, I'd go Skeet II or IC for upland birds, Modified for steel shot and a Extra full Turkey tube for,what else, turkeys. If quail, grouse or woodcock are on the menu, add a Skeet I or Cyl tube.

I recommend a forcing cone job for best pattern density and of course, patterning. Get the pattern to hit about 2/3 above the aim point and you should do fine.

Oh,yeah, if it was me I'd go with a 21" for turkey,26 or 28" for the others. However, a 21" bbled 870 is a responsive quail and grouse gun.
 
Dave, read your post and have a question. I've always *read* that the 26" barrels are supposed to be far better (and 28" maybe even better than that), even for upland game (as opposed to ducks & kin), because the added weight and length make for a smoother swing and better hits? I haven't shot skeet since I was in high school and never hunted anything that flys, so the emphasis is on "read" and "supposed." I am somewhat interested in this, since Shawn's question has been rolling around in the back of my mind.

BTW, with this in mind, what's your opinion on the lightweight vs. standard weight 870 barrels?
 
First, there's no optimum length for any of us, no magic number that will guarantee hits.
And we're adaptable,we can and do shoot well sometimes with shotguns that are ill suited for the purpose at hand.

Pop was desdly on quail, or anything for that matter, with a heavy old Savage O/U, circa 1940, choked Modified and Full. Darn thing weighed 8 lbs and swung like a RR tie.

When friends gave him an SKB O/U 20 ga, Pop was still as deadly. Different length, drop and feel.

Most of us, tho are mere mortals, and some loose guidelines are in order.

First, the taller you are,the longer bbl. Ideally, the 21" bbled jobs would be for someone around 5 feet tall.That's according to the Brits, who get downright nitpicky about these things.

IMO, and this is just an educated guess, Joe Average would do as well on upland stuff with a 26" as a 28" bbl,and maybe a little better.
The 26" bbl will be a little lighter and carry better over the course of a day.

I got spoiled a few years ago by a French Double, set up like a Brit Game Gun, with 27" bbls.

WHAT a close range,small shot masterpiece that is!! Made me look like a better woodcock shot than I am by far.Sold it tho, too pretty to carry into the briars.6 lbs,5 oz, BTW.

But, having that made me want a pump that would handle like a good double,so I cropped off a perfectly good 28" bbl to 21",had it fitted for tubes, and reduced the weight to roughly 7 lbs. It still doesn't handle like that double,but it handles very well for my purposes. It's a generic bird gun, usable on geese or quail,and not the perfect shotgun for either extreme. I like it, but admit I might do better at clays, or trap, with a longer bbl.

As for the Light Contour bbls, worth trying. One could end up with a long sight radius w/o a heavy shotgun. I think the break is about 8 oz.
 
Remington makes a 23" LC barrel with rem. choke. Might be good. I am thinking about it for my fiance as she is about 95 lbs and 5'4".
 
Could work, Kilgor, how much shooting has she done? The tradeoff for less weight is more recoil. Start with the lightest loads you can find or make, and go slowly.
 
I've shot an 870 since I was 17, did a lot of dove and quail hunting when I was younger. I was a decent wingshot.
I tried using my 870 (26", IM choke) for a round of trap, busted 7 or 8 out of 25 :(
Next time I went out, I used a Browning BT99 w/34" full choke barrel. I broke 48 out of 50, and one of the ones I missed, I let it sail 'till it was about 70 yds out 'cause I just wanted to see if the BT99 could do it. (It was the very first time I'd ever shot the gun.)
This was many years ago, when a new BT99 cost $299. Ever since then, I've wondered how I would fare in the dove fields with that long, full choke barrel. I think I could take a BT99 and half a box of shells and limit out. That long barrel slowed my swing down and put me right on target.
Which reminds me of an interesting dove hunt I once went on. This turned out the be simultaneously the best and worst dove hunt I've ever been on. It was the worst because in 4 hours of sitting in the field, I didn't see 20 birds total. It was the best because only 4 flew within range, and I fired 4 times and came home with 4 birds. It's not too often one can say they shot 100% on doves.
(The dove is a pretty little bird that weighs about 5 ounces and seems to fly 20mph per ounce. Biologists claim that they actually fly much slower than this, which may be why biologists miss so many of them.- Eddie Finlay, former Outdoor Editor for The State newspaper.)

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center

[This message has been edited by 45King (edited September 13, 2000).]
 
Good to see you, Richard. If it works for you...

As for that BT 99,I've an idea that the thing may just fit you better than the standard 870. Trap stocks run a little longer on the average,and oft have less drop.

I've done good work in the dove fields with a Full choke, but am inclined to think I do better with an IC or Modified, depending on my stand. And I like a mid weight shotgun, balanced a little more forward than most quail/grouse guns, but not as muzzle heavy as a specialized trap gun.

Congrats on the 100%, never did it myself...
 
Dave, the best shooting I ever did was with a Fox/Sterlingworth 20 ga. SxS with 26" barrels. The stock had been reduced in length to fit my mother, and when I was 10 or so, it was a perfect fit for me. I don't remember what chokes the barrels were, but that gun swung sweetly for pass shooting at doves, and jumped right on target for quick-flushing quail. It wasn't too good for ducks, though. (If you're going to shoot ducks with a 20, it should at least be a 3", and this was a 2 3/4".) I think it was choked IM & M.
In 1965, I attended The Citadel summer camp (which was run just like a military school, down to buzz cuts and uniforms, white-glove room inspections, formations, bugle calls, marching to and from meals and activities, etc.) As part of the regular ciriculum, I was taught riflery by an NRA instructor, but they also offered trap shooting as an extraciricular activity. I signed up.
First day of trap, they handed me a full-size Browning A-5 12 ga. and told me I was going to shoot 16 birds (why this odd number, I have no idea.) So, I threw this monstrously oversized beast to my shoulder 16 times, and broke 16 birds. When I got back to my room and peeled of my uniform T-shirt, my right side was a large bruise from shoulder to about mid-waist. Ever since, I have not been too fond of A5's.

Interesting take on stock fit. I think you're probably right about that. On a wingshooting shotgun, the buttstock is the rear sight, and that's why it's so critical to get a perfect fit. Add in the fact that the longer barrel will slow down the swing, and you've got a nearly 100% gun. Most of my dove and quail shooting was done with either IM or M chokes, and I have a strong preference for 26 to 28 inch barrels.

In reference to the orginal post, I'm not sure there is a perfect barrel length for turkey, ducks, and upland birds. Turkey and ducks can be shoot with the same barrel, different choke tubes, but I think I'd want something a little quicker for upland shooting. Pass shooting requires a smooth swing through, whereas "jump" shooting requires a fast-on-target approach. A 26" might be the ideal compromise, but given my druthers, I'd use different guns altogether. A sweet handling 20 ga. double gun would be my preference for upland game, and the 12 ga. 870 w/28" barrels would be prefered for pass shooting. (My $.05 worth.)

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Shoot straight & make big holes, regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center
 
Thanks for all the info. I'm mulling over a 26" or 28" bbl.

Anyone have experience with the Hastings Wad Lock barrel? It has straight lands and grooves to keep the shotcup from rifling down the bore as happens in a smoothbore barrel. I saw the Hasting barrels in the latest Cabela's catalog.

Dave McC: You ever work at Hagerstown? I used to live in Frederick. Almost bought a house withing sight of the Hagerstown prison. My wife said, "NO WAY!" Got a good friend who lives in Boonsboro, up on South Mountain.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Shawn (or anyone else): what is the science that makes a shot wad _rotate_ in a smoothbore barrel?!? I know why sinks and toilets do this <g>; never imagined a shotgun would?
 
Varying degrees of friction around the circumference of the wad/shotcup as it travels down a smooth bore can cause it to rotate. This can be caused by fouling in the bore, the physical dimensions of the wad/shotcup, misalignment of the wad/shotcup as it enters the bore from the shotshell, etc.

I work with Trident missiles. When we onload and offload them from their launch tubes, which are smoothbore tubes, they rifle as they're lowered and raised. Orientation of the missile in the launch tube or loading tube is important. In the launch tube, orientation of the missile is critical for accuracy. In the loading tube, orientation is critical for rifling offset.

Trident II missiles weren't supposed to rifle during missile handling, but they do. About the only way to eliminate rifling is to build a square missile.

So the Hastings Wad Lock barrel has me intrigued. I'm curious if anyone has experience with it and what their opinions of its performance are. Does it have any effect on shot patterns or is it just another gimmick?

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
Richard, my HD and deer 870s have standard stocks and work well with peep sights. However my bird 870 has the stock shimmed a trifle to reduce the drop maybe 1/4-3/8 inch. and the toe rounded off a little. This puts 2/3 or so of the pattern above the bead,and works for me on most wing shooting. Technically I should use one a little longer, but since it works...

26" bbled 20s are a bit muzzle light, and maybe one reason that Fox(wonderful shotguns!!!!) did so well for thee was it was subtly muzzle heavy after the stock work. This would smooth out the swing, especially for a tyro with adrenaline coursing through his veins. Hope you still have it.

If I, generalist that I am, was to get a specialized shotgun for upland game, I wouldn't, unless the Lottery Gods smiled on me big time.Then, it would be a classic SXS, maybe a Fox, with 28 inch bbls, tubes, and a stock that fit me like an Armani suit.

Shawn, I worked in Jessup,but have some knowledge of the Hagerstown complex. Actually, the area around the prison would have been a great place to live. ALL those idiots knew that the farmers around there up to the 60s were paid a bounty for catching escapees,and it mattered naught if the escapees were breathing when the guards caught up.I believe escapees were regarded as a cash crop(G). Tractor guns are still common in the area.

Also,I have no knowledge regarding the Wad lock bbl pro nor con, but since I've been getting along fine w/o for the last 40 years of shotgunning,I'll keep going...
 
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