...7.62x39 or 5.56x45/AK or AR?

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WoundChannel

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7.62x39 or 5.56x45, which leads to the question AK or AR? Lately I have been looking to buy an AR-15, probably Bushmaster, but I just saw the Kalashnikovs by Krebs in the March Gun World. I haven't handled one, but they look pretty damn good. At $755.00 retail, they sound reasonable.
What do you guys think about utility, versatility, accuracy, power, price, ruggedness, real world usefulness, etc. etc. when you compare the two? Thank you for any thoughts you have on this.
 
I guess I should answer the question, "What are you going to use it for?" Well, like 90% of my limited weaponry, I would most likely want a tool I could bet my familie's and my life upon.
 
I don't know much about the Krebs, but I had the same decision to make about half a year or so ago. I decided to go with a Bulgarian AK, for one reason because the supplies are drying up and I wanted to get one before the price became too outrageous. The only reason why I regret the decision is because my girlfriend decided that, after buying a Bulgarian Makarov, she was going to take over the AK because both were made by Arsenal.

Now, if (when) I buy another longarm, I'm looking long and hard at the Bushmasters as opposed to another AK but am VERY tempted by an M1A. The Krebs you mentioned (is that the one in the same magazine as the OSSs?) look very nice, but at that price you could get a good AK as well. So the price shouldn't be a concern.

You will probably (well, maaaaybe ;) ) get a more accurate rifle out of the AR. More sighting options including better iron sights, better availability of parts, etc. More PC too, more gunsmiths can work on them, but the AK can be a do-it-yourself design due to its simplicity.

In general, you know that the saying is that AKs are more reliable and mine has not skipped a beat. Others swear by their ARs, however...


As far as the calibers, take your pick as to whom to believe. Both should be effective and the AK round will penetrate more than the AR round. Some claim that AKs zip through and through while the 5.56 will turn bone into grenade? 762x39 is going to be cheaper, at least for a while. My current SHTF rifle is an AK and I don't feel underarmed by it in the least. I can go camping with it and not worry about grime or muck, but I do take care of it as much as possible.

Whichever rifle you get, I would stick to the respective caliber that it was designed for.

The bottom line is this - if you could ONLY shoot one of them right now, which would you shoot? If you had both, but could bring only one to the range which would it be? If SHTF and you could only grab one, which would you grab? That's how I decided... Good luck, let us know what you get.
 
You know, an AR-10 .308 isn't a bad compromise! Penetration power, long range accuracy (500+ yards), similar price as an AR-15.
 
The March issue of Gun World has an article on the Kreb's AK-103 and AK103K. I was already looking into buying an AK and after reading the article - I think I will make mine an AK-103K (carbine). Sounds like they are well made and are converted from the Saiga hunting rifles back to the original military specs.

As for the AR-15/Bushmaster, I bought a "shorty" A3 about 2 years ago and I am glad that I went with that rifle before getting an AK. Since then, I have customized with a .45 caliber upper, a .223 24 inch V-Match upper, scopes and lights. It is easy to configure for long range shots or for CQB. There are definitely more options to play with the AR than the AK. As for reliabilty, I agree the AK can withstand a lot more neglect than the AR but neither will function if you don't take care of them. I have never had a problem with my Bushmaster and trust it as much as any mechanical device (something can/will always go wrong). I also believe that you will get better accuracy with the AR if that is important to you. AK ammo is cheaper however.

If you can only afford one or the other for now, I would go with the AR because of the accuracy and customization options. I also feel that the AR is the best choice for HD or any other SHTF situation that I might encounter in a metroploitan area or when hiking/camping. If you envision a "Red Dawn" scenario then the AK may be the better choice because of lack of cleaning supplies and ease of ammo resupply ;). That all being said the AK is a fine gun and it will be my next rifle purchase - just wasn't my first choice.
 
For my money, I would purchase a AK-74 variant. More reliable, IMO, than a AR and fires a flatter round to boot. Accuracy isnt up there with any AR, but they are just plain good guns.

Mags are creeping on the price ladder, however.
 
From what I have seen, you can get ammo in 7.62x39mm a lot cheaper than 223Rem. However, if you are worried about defending your country on our own turf without being enlisted, 223Rem ammo will be everywhere because it is the current NATO round.
 
You guys need to be aware of some other rifles which you are obviously not aware of.

First of all, there is a new US made 5.56 rifle out called the M96 Expeditionary Rifle. It is much more reliable than the AR15s and has so little recoil that you put more shots on target. It also has a quick change barrel so that it can be assembled into a variety of configurations. There is nothing like it on the market. It uses AR15 magazines.

Next, there is a line of Kalashnikov weapons which are both quality made and accurate. They are called VEPRs. They're also priced right. You can pick between .223, 7.62x39mm, and .308. In other words, you can have your cake and eat it too.

I either make or import these rifles. You can find them at
http://www.robarm.com.

I challenge anyone to find better rifles for the money. By the way the M96 goes for $1,499.99 and the AKs range from $549.99 to $599.99 depending on caliber.

AJR
 
I'm impressed.

Moonlighting on fnfal.com and TFL Mr. Robinson? I'm impressed. I can't wait for my local dealer (Jensen Arms in Loveland, CO) to get the next shipment of M96's in.

Sorry for the off-topic bit. As for the debate..

You should be able to get good quality .223 (5.56x45) surplus for around $111/k + shipping (see http://www.sportsmansguide.com ).

The trajectory of .223 is superior to 7.62x39, in my opinion - it will be flatter in the effective range of the round. 7.62x39 is just about the same a .30-30. Neither of these pack a lot of punch at long ranges.

If you want that, go .308 (7.62x51) and pick up an M1A, VEPR 308, CETME, G3, or FAL.

Another option that I have no experience with is the Russian 5.45x39 (??).

-z
 
Mr R.,

I am interested in your Vepr's (especially the price)and would like to take a closer look. Who carries your products in the Portland, Oregon area?

Thanks,
Miles
 
That sweet M96 Expeditionary Rifle

Isn't there a semiautomatic belt-fed conversion unit in the design or development phase for the M96?

That is one NICE rifle! (and carbine!)
 
There is a belt fed system in the works. No promises but it looks promising.

The top feed kit is closer to becoming a reality. As are numerous other upgrades and accessories.

Many of you mentioned Krebs AK103 on this site. While Krebs does a tremendous job, the Saiga on which he bases his work is still no where near on par with the VEPR. The VEPR at $549.99 7.62x39mm model; $569.99 .223 Model; and $599.99 is far superior to the AK103. I shot a brand new Krebs AK103 for the first time yesterday back to back with a VEPR. There is no comparison. The VEPR has a better feel, better trigger pull and is more accurate. Also, the quality of the internal parts is much higher.

By the way, the M96 Expeditionary Rifle goes for $1,499.99.

AJR
 
I can attest to the accuracy of the VEPR II in .223
I bought one in Dec and have gotten about 600 rds through it in many different scenario's(indoor range-outdoor long range etc...). It is with out a doubt the most accurate AK I have ever shot and is on par, if not above the accuracy of my Colt AR HBAR. It has a semi bull barrel and the finish/fit of the rifle is superb. I can assure you, there aren't any better AK's out there for the price.

In all fairness, I have not shot or handled a Kreb's, but I know friends that have and they say the same thing, my VEPR is better made and less $$. The Saiga is not the best of the AK's that are out there. My SLR-95 is better than a Saiga and is cheaper to boot.

This is not a shameless plug for Rob Arms as I owe him nothing, rather a plug for a fine rifle offered at a fair and honest price.
 
The more I get into Shooting and Guns the Less I'm liking the 7.62x39 round. I've gone threw several Russian rifles but the fact I couldn't hit a 12inch piece of paper at 300yds turned me off. My Mini 14 hit it every single time at 300yds and that gun has a reputation of not being accurate. The weight of the ammo 7.62x39 123gr vs. a .308 147gr round is so similar but the ballistics are drastically different. I'd pick a .308 rifle over a 7.62x39 rifle just about any time. One is accurate the other is barely accurate past 200yds. If you want to carry lots of ammo with less weight stay in the 22 caliber range. I'd get an AK-74 rather than the older rifles. I'm also less and less interested in AR's. Am I confusing you???? The Russian and variant rifles are excellent but the 7.62x39 round is inferior compared to .223 in many ways.
 
Man that guy is sure pimping his wares :) I'd tell him to shut up, but he seems to be right about his stuff being good....
 
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