7.62 X 51mm kB!…

D

Dean Speir

New member
The Southern California Tactical Combat Program, Bill Johnson presiding in Michael Harries absence, experienced a catastrophic failure of an M1A rifle firing a 7.62 X 51mm round said to be of German origin.

The gun was Code H (we're talkin' "destroyed" here!) but the shooter was relatively unscathed.

Anyone with information about these rounds (which were not the CBC 7.62 "re-engastada" cartridges which kB!'d in excess of 80 M14s, Ma Deuces, etc., a decade ago) headstamped "MS 66-59" beneath the "7.62 X 51," please let us know. There's photos here.
 
I've never been around if (?) or when (?) somebody turned a rifle round loose after it had been loaded with pistol powder (by mistake, of course). Does anybody know if this is the style, the "behavior" of such destruction? The question, of course, is how does an automated production run create only one such, or only a few such rounds?

To bring in the black cloud of plots and evil, a Vietnam Vet told me of a practice, there. Carefully disassemble an AK round, replace the powder with C-4, and reinsert the bullet. Then, load one of these rounds in the chamber or as #2 from the top of the magazine, and leave the weapon along a road or trail...

But if you pull a bullet, play games with the powder, and reinsert the bullet, it fits a bit loosely. Using a die to resize the neck leaves tooling marks.

Sometimes cheap ammo ain't cheap.

Art
 
It was actually a Black Op, Art, code-named "Eldest Son" (also "Italian Green" and "Pole Bean") that was a sophisticated project to sabotage enemy ammunition (including 82mm mortar), and was said to have been very successful.

This has always been the most hilarious (and truly fiendish) ammo story from that period… (I learned of it from one USMC who used to do it regularly). Upon finding a cache of VC munitions, they would grab off a bunch of those .30 cal. rounds, pull the bullets, dump the powder and replace it with a very fast-burning pistol propellant, reseat the projectiles and then slip the custom loads randomly back into the VC inventory.

VC morale deteriorated precipitously, but the decline in marksmanship was even more dramatic: trying to hit their target while trembling behind a tree and waving their weapon around front and firing with one hand, was not very effective.

(The "C4" aspect of this is, I'm afraid, fanciful… not even a magnum primer would touch that off.)
 
Ya don't suppose they (US govt) would try that here against some future foraging freedom fighter?

Rick
 
I have been told by other M1A shooters that German .308 militart ammunition is loaded with an inusual time/pressore curve to improve its performance in H&K G3 rifles. I'm not sure that this is true, but as a precaution I don't use German .308 ammunition in mt M1A.
 
Dean, whatcha doin' here?!!? I really enjoy your voice of reason when I catch it in rec.gunz.

IIRC, the 7.62 NATO is supposed to be loaded at slightly lower pressure than SAAMI specs.

This one is quite disturbing. But may I ask what kind of barrel the M1A was equipped with? I overheard talk on the firing line in the mid-80s regarding some famous barrel maker having banana-peel failures at the chamber and mid-barrel because of improper or incomplete heat treatment and/or stress relief after profiling the M1A barrels (either medium-heavy or heavy profile!).

Think we could get MarcCo in Colorado to look at the barrel metal?

BTW, it seems that any "surplus" ammo loaded with the wrong powder should be broken down before ever leaving the possessing government's control. But then again, I sometimes oppose blind devotion to international "diversity" because other cultures' VALUES don't match my own in some important ways.
 
Made in Manusaar factory 1959. Not sure about post-WWII primer sealant color/bullet type to determine if it's for practice, general use, steel core or what.
 
Inserting about the powder …

From reading the description of the damage my mind keeps think that the barrel must have been plugged. However, I’ll yield to my more knowledgeable TFL’ers.
 
"anyone with information about these rounds (which were not the CBC 7.62 "re-engastada" cartridges which kB!'d in excess of 80 M14s, Ma Deuces, etc., a decade ago) headstamped "MS 66-59" beneath the "7.62 X 51," please let us know. There's photos here."

THe Ma Deuce is the M2 .50 Cal Browning machine gun. It is not in 7.62. Was the same powder used in both round to make them KB?"
 
During the Korean War I was annoyed to see some chinese soldier carrying M1 Garands, I "remaufactured" some .30-06 rounds by removing the bullet, dumping the original powder charge and peplacing it with powder extracted from US hand grenades. I got some of our patrols to drop bandollers with a few rounds of these "hot loads" where Chinese patrols who usually swept up arms and ammunition were likely to find them. Three weeks later a line crosser reported that an order had been issued banning theuse of "unsafe American rifles."
 
My error, BillX… comes from winging it without my notes from '93 when I did the CBC story for Gun Week. I'd thought that Kent Lomont had told me that that was one of the two machineguns he'd lost at Knob Creek that year to the CBC rounds.

Thanks for pointing that out…
 
So was the other MG Kent Lomont lost at Knob Creek an M1919 rebarreled in 7.62??

Please enlighten me on this known problem ammo that torched so many M14s etc....
 
Updated with more images…

Gotten lotsa good feedback from people… for instance, we know now that the ammunition was originally manufactured in Germany by the Manusaar factory in 1959. (Thanks, HKSigWalther.)

Plus there's been a lot of good feedback in these Forums, especially now that I have added some images (which can be click-expanded) of the kB!'d M1A and the shooter's injury. See it here…

(And no, I haven't had a chance to find my CBC notes yet.)
 
Hard Ball,

As for your Korean War cleverness --> Good for you! Im curious, how did you remanufacture in a field expedient way? Did you bring a hand press to that UN mission?
 
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