7-11 replies to my comments (long)

Coinneach

Staff Alumnus
A few weeks ago, a 7-11 employee was fired for violating the chain's dances-with-psychos policy. I fired off the following to their customer service address:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Mr Feliciano saved his own life and those of his customers, saved his store's money, and helped put a criminal in jail, despite the fact that the owner of his franchise took not even the precaution of a silent alarm.

And you thank him by firing him.

7-Eleven will be boycotted by 80-million-plus gun owners because of your idiotic, lamebrained policies. Imagine how much
money you're going to lose.

If you want to fix this situation, give Mr Feliciano his job back, a pay raise, a bonus, and a written apology. Otherwise,
your company can go to hell.
[/quote]

I just got the following response (let's play Spot The Logical Disconnects):
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Dear Mr. Fitzpatrick:

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail us and giving us the opportunity to respond. So often the news media do not tell the
whole story.

7-Eleven, Inc. is deeply committed to providing a safe working and shopping environment for its employees and customers. Toward this end, the company has developed training programs and procedures
based upon years of research and working with law enforcement agencies around the country.

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), the federal agency that regulates workplace safety, and the National Association of Police Organizations advise retailers to train store personnel in non-confrontational behavior if a crime occurs. OSHA recently conducted research, the organization reports and advises that the best way to avoid injury is to be non-confrontational during a robbery. Another study shows that robbery victims who resist are 49 times more likely to be killed than those who don't.

Consistent with this non-confrontational approach, one of 7-Eleven® stores' policies prohibits employees from aggressively confronting or resisting a robber. Many other retailers have similar policies.
Of course, this policy does not prevent employees from protecting themselves if attacked, which was not the case in Mr. Feliciano's situation.

The policy was developed for one reason and one reason only - to safeguard the well-being of store personnel and customers. The
most valuable assets in the store are our employees and customers, and we value the lives of each and every one. 7-Eleven stores'
management supports this in its training of store personnel to be non-confrontational when dealing with a would-be robber. The risk to the employee and others in the store is simply too great.

There have been situations at both 7-Eleven and other retail stores around the country where an employee tried to be a hero but that
effort failed. All too frequently, these employees were seriously injured or worse.

In the Martinsburg, W. Va., incident, the robber had a gun pointed at Mr. Feliciano's co-worker when Mr. Feliciano jumped the robber. While the ultimate outcome was good in that the robber was arrested, Mr. Feliciano might have put his co-worker's life at risk, if the robber's gun had gone off.

Mr. Feliciano had been trained in 7-Eleven store policies and had signed an awareness form acknowledging that violating a policy
could be grounds for discipline or dismissal.

Local 7-Eleven management put Mr. Feliciano on administrative leave with pay while we conducted a thoughtful and thorough review of the case. We talked with Mr. Feliciano, who said he would probably act the same way if the situation were to happen again. This leads us to believe he would not follow our procedures. Local management discussed the situation with 7-Eleven Inc.'s corporate office legal and operations executives. Afterwards, the decision was made to release Mr. Feliciano from his duties.

While this action may be unpopular with some people, 7-Eleven stands by its decision. We want to reinforce that we are serious about policies to deter crime and safeguard store personnel and customers.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to respond to your concerns.

Janey Camacho
Manager, Consumer Affairs
[/quote]

Ms Camacho's email address is jcamach@7-11.com.

I wrote an extremely long and blistering reply to this bit of garbage, dissecting all of the fallacies point-by-point. I'm sure more of you could do the same, but nicer and shorter. :)

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited August 09, 2000).]
 
Their data is pure crap. Someone who resists without a firearm is 49 times more likely to be killed than those who don't. This is true, but someone who resists WITH a firearm is significantly less likely to be killed. This kind of spin they put on their stats helps noone. Mr. Feliciano is better off without 7-11, and so are we.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
7-11 aka Southland Corp is owned by JAPS!!! :mad: I have been boycotting them for years just because of this!! Knowing this, you can see that their anti- gun stance is quite natural.(for them ;) )

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Yeah, I got a permit to carry,it's called the friggin Constitution.---Ted Nugent

"Glock 26: 17 rounds of concealed carry DEATH comming your way from out of nowhere!!! THAT'S FIREPOWER, BABY!!!"
 
Why boycott them because Japs own them? I don't get it. When I go to buy a car, I specifically look for Japanese cars. Especially Honda, which are made in America anyway, whereas Fords are made in Mexico with parts made in China.....

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
The nationality of the owners of Southland Corp. is irrelevant.

What counts is that they lie, distort facts, and deliberately expose their employees to murderers while preventing them from fighting back.

'nuff said?
 
"While the ultimate outcome was good in that the robber was arrested, Mr. Feliciano might have put his co-worker's life at risk, if the robber's gun had gone off."

Good thinking!!!!


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You have to be there when it's all over. Otherwise you can't say "I told you so."

Better days to be,

Ed
 
This kind of thing is driven by insurance companies that are (logically) looking to minimize risk. And, by attorneys, that advise their clients to minimize risk.

In our current environment, the average jury would probably view the Southland policy as more prudent than simply telling employees that they can carry on the job, and use lethal force if justified by the circumstances.

The alternative is to require firearms and self defense training for those employees who choose to carry. And, then they'd be sued by employees who didn't carry, and were hurt, because their policy of allowing some to carry would 'prove' the working environment was dangerous.

Do I like this kind of crap? No. But, I think I understand why the company is doing what they do. IMHO, this is much more a function of our inefficient criminal and civil justice systems than it is a function of corporate perspective.

The small store approach would be to hire logical people who can handle self defense situations, and not mention firearms. With bigger operations, like Southland, they become a huge target for lawsuits ... makes 'em, well, gun-shy.

Live and let live. Regards from AZ
 
Sounds like a reasonable response to me. He signed the agreement saying that he would be fired if he resisted, and they did what they said they would do. He didn't have to take a job with them, and he knew the consequences. Perhaps he should take a security job :).
 
<quote>
(OSHA), the federal agency that regulates workplace safety, and the National Association of Police Organizations advise retailers to train store personnel in non-confrontational behavior if a crime occurs.</quote>

Can't document this right now, but a bg walks into 7-11 on US 17 outside Hampton VA last week, goes for the $$$, clerk in a sweats, he's in a hurry - shoots her in the head dead then fires at her night partner and she gets wounded. We all know 7-11 puts all the "overage" in an under counter safe. So how much can a bg get ... 50-100 bucks or so?

A bg with a gun out and ready is fair game from any direction by any caliber at any time WITHOUT WARNING!!!!!!!!!

He's earned his right to Hell's half acre.
IMNSHO.
 
I fired off a short, to the point, missive and within 5 minutes received the same canned reply from "her". Apparently they have it all automated now.
face-icon-small-shocked.gif

I sure as he** won't step into a 7-11 again if that's the best they can do.
 
When I was working at the gunshop, I sold handguns to quite a few 7-11 franchise owners in my area...



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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Franchise owners can function under quite varied rules though, I kinda doubt the average seven eleven guy is gonna feel a sense of job security if he's packing..

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
I just sent this......

Dear Ms. Camacho,
Due to the recent dismissal of an employee of yours (Mr. Feliciano) being terminated for saving the lives of himself, his coworkers, and his customers, I will no longer be frequenting any 7-11. Your decision has greatly disappointed 80 million gun owners who will support this boycott. Good luck staying in business!
 
Eric,

The point i think you are missing is that he did comply with company regulations. The BG got the money with out confrontation.

But then, the BG began to make threatening gestures toward other people in the store after she got the money. This is when the clerk decided to act, not before. Had the BG simply left, the clerk would not have acted.

This is from the clerk's own words on the Howie Carr Show last week.

The clerk followed policy to the letter, IMHO.



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~USP

"[Even if there would be] few tears shed if and when the Second Amendment is held to guarantee nothing more than the state National Guard, this would simply show that the Founders were right when they feared that some future generation might wish to abandon liberties that they considered essential, and so sought to protect those liberties in a Bill of Rights. We may tolerate the abridgement of property rights and the elimination of a right to bear arms; but we should not pretend that these are not reductions of rights." -- Justice Scalia 1998
 
Denfoote,

Please lay off the ethnic sterotypes. Thanks.

To all...Someone should point out to 7-11 corporate that criminals avoid mom and pop stores like the plague because very often these shop owners are armed. 7-11, the "gun free, thug friendly zone" is a great target if you can defeat the cameras and silent alarms.

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NRA/GOA/SAF/USMC

Oregon residents please support the Oregon Firearms Federation, our only "No compromise" gun lobby. http://www.oregonfirearms.org
 
The nationality of the owners of Southland IS an issue. The Japanese are notoriously anti-gun. So much so that Olympic shooters had problems during the last Olympics. The Japanese are also one of the major supporters of the proposed worldwide disarmament of all private citizens that is being pushed as part of the U.N. charter. THE JAPANESE PEOPLE, INDUSTRY, AND GOVERNMENT ARE NO FRIENDS TO GUN OWNERS!!!!!!!!!!
 
Klint's less of a friend to US gunowners than the Japanese, so let's concentrate less energy bashing the Japanese.


Battler.
 
7-11 says: "We want to reinforce that we are serious about policies to deter crime and safeguard store personnel and customers."

I don't understand how a policy of handing over the money and standing still when somebody attacks you will "deter crime".
 
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