6mm BR vs 6mm-284 vs 308 vs 220 swift

V

vcm

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ok gents.... I am buying several rifles of various calibers for no other reason than I love to collect guns for the love of guns. I recently have been intrigued with the smaller faster rounds. In addition to those in the thread title I am also buying 204, 17 Remington, 17 fireball, 22-250, 22 mag, 17 HMR, 7mm-08, 223, 22lr, 17 mach2. I am getting into long range bench rest target shooting and varmint hunting. but I want to also shoot at 600-1000 yards. my first reaction is to grab the 6 mm BR Norma for those ranges. but I know the 308, 6mm-284 would be fine as well. I am curious if I wanted to use the 17 fireball or 17 Remington or 204 and even 22-250 for those 600-plus yard shots how should I approach this? do I go with heavier bullets? make them hotter? how do you think these types of situations out? long range with a smaller bullet? I am new to the long range precision world. any help would be much appreciated.

thanks,

vince
 
First off I have to ask if you handload or not? shooting any caliber at long range calls for bullets with as high of a ballistic coefficient as possible. This typically means heavy for caliber bullets like a 75gr bthp in 223 and 22-250. To stabilize that long heavy bullet your gonna need a faster twist rate . The BC of the tiny 17 bullets are pathetic for long range any amount of wind at 600 yards and you could be adjusting several feet to try and score hits. The 22_250 is better with something like a 80gr amax but you will probably need at least a 9 twist barell to stabilize it. If your just starting out I suggest narrowing your cartridge list to 2 or 3 and mastering the drop and wind drift of them before you start adding more. I would suggest a 22lr a 22-250 and a 308. Keep it simple to start out and then decide where you wanna go from there.
 
thanks bacardisteve! appreciate the advice. I posted earlier about tips for reloading as this is something I am planning on learning. but I have not started yet. all of the calibers I am buying are not just for long range shooting. but I am very interested in learning more about these long distances and trying my hand at that. some of the calibers I am buying for much shorter distances and varmint hunting. it's just recently that I have been reading more about long range shooting and it looks like a lot of fun. that is why I am asking you guys for advice. like you said, narrow my choices and become more proficient then broaden my choices of calibers. I prob should go with a heavier round like the 308 huh to learn more then move on to more challenging rounds? and thanks for the advice on barrel twist. this is the type of info I really need to learn more about. thanks again!!

vince
 
Lotsa problems with doping the wind and wind drift with the small-caliber cartridges out in Ma Bell country. Less problem in target shooting at known distances, of course, but wind is the killer.

The .17 Mach2 is great to 100 yards on prairie dogs, and okay to 200 with holdover and wind-doping.

For the .223 and the .22-250 "way out there", use the heaviest bullet which your rifles' twists will stabilize.

Probably you'd be well off to start long-range meddling with, say, a .308 and get good at it. Then explore other cartridges.
 
vcm said:
I am also buying 204, 17 Remington, 17 fireball, 22-250, 22 mag, 17 HMR, 7mm-08, 223, 22lr, 17 mach2. I am getting into long range bench rest target shooting and varmint hunting. but I want to also shoot at 600-1000 yards. my first reaction is to grab the 6 mm BR Norma for those ranges. but I know the 308, 6mm-284 would be fine as well.
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Long list of rifles here, and I think your best bet would be to buy a few rifles to get started and since you're not into reloading you should stay away from difficult cartridges.

First off .17 Remington and Fireball are difficult to find both rifles and ammunition in factory form. Same for .17 Mach2 as it is pretty much a dead cartridge. You might as well throw the 6mm-284 in there as well since it's a wildcat cartridge with no factory support for rifles and ammunition, unless you actually meant 6.5-284 Norma. 6.5-284 still has limited factory rifles and ammunition to keep you shooting.

Out of your list the rifles I'd buy are .22 LR, .223 Rem, and .308 Win to start. This would be a great battery of rifles to start with as this will be the cheapest ammunition for you to start with and some of the most common cartridges worldwide. They are easy to learn to shoot well and once you get a few thousand rounds under you belt of these combined you might find you don't need a bunch of other rifles to play with.

.17 HMR, .204 Ruger, .22-250 Rem, and 7mm-08 Rem would be second choices. .17 HMR is expensive when compared to .22 LR even with today's inflated prices on .22 LR. .204 and .22-250 (can throw in .220 Swift in here) are similar in uses and mainly only good for varmint shooting, where as the .223 with 7-8 twist will be more versatile in the long run. 7mm-08 is a great hunting cartridge but doesn't do anything significantly better than the .308 Win if you want to use it for target shooting except more expensive ammunition.

6mm BR is a great target rifle and if you want to shoot long range you'll need to make sure that you get the right twist barrel. If the rifle offered in this cartridge is a 12-14 twist rate it's made to shoot 100-200 yard benchrest with flat base bullets. If the rifle is running a 7-8 twist then it is set up to shoot long range with heavy for caliber 6mm bullets. Don't invest in a 6mm BR until you are reloading ammunition as it is very expensive to buy.
 
22 caliber cartridges have not fared well in competition past 600 yards. 24 caliber ones do well past that range, but only in heavy benchrest rifles fired in free recoil. the 22's are good up to 600 yards for small game. The .22-.250 has 1/4th the barrel life of the .223 Rem. The 17 and 20 caliber cartridges have a range limit of 300 yards for decent accuracy and they don't buck the wind very well.

If you'll hand hold rifles for long range, the 6.5x.284 is a lot better. But the .308 Win has four to five times the barrel life; 3000 rounds compared to 700.
 
no 7mm08? show me a .308 that will push a 162gr A-max bullet at 2700fps with a BC of .625 and a regular 1-9,1-10 twist will keep it point on right down to sub sonic. eastbank.
 
If it were me I would try a couple of your rifles( like the .308, 7-08, and the 6mm br) at the 100 yard line and see how you like them. I would factor in ammo availability, the trigger, optics, and how the rifle feels to you. Get to where you can call your shots and hit what you are aiming at. Double the distance and repeat. Pick one and learn the rifle would be my opinion.
 
eastbank said:
no 7mm08? show me a .308 that will push a 162gr A-max bullet at 2700fps with a BC of .625 and a regular 1-9,1-10 twist will keep it point on right down to sub sonic. eastbank.
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Show me a guy who admittedly doesn't reload ammunition like the OP, where he can get what you described in a factory round? The 7mm-08 is a good round but not much ammunition is available as you described without finding a custom manufacturer.
 
I can tell you that the 6mmBR (and there are a few different ones) is an awesome 200 yard predator cartridge that will anchor a coyote DRT.

I had a friend in another place I lived who had the 6-284. He used it for P-dogs and showed me photo a friend captured of a P-dog he shot at 400 yards - it was a sea of red mist with the head in one spot and the body in another.

308 is fairly adaptable, maybe not the best for certain applications, but always goos. Don't have any 220 experience or knowledge.
 
if the op is not a reloader now, after he starts shooting long range he will be. even factory 7mm08 140gr bullets go 2800fps. if he does load the BC of the heavy long range 7mm bullets are very hard to beat and cases are easily made out of .243-.308 with good barrel life and there is nothing wrong with the .260 rem, good high BC bullets and the same cases can be used to make the .260 rem. no matter what he decides to get, i,ll bet reloading will be in his future. eastbank.
 
just coming from the 6MMBR side. Very nice rifle. 1000 yards is a cake walk with 107 serrias. I had mine out to 1400 yards here last fall. Was more than capable at that range also. The 308 and 155's is a 1000 yard rifle with ease also. As Bart has said- very good barrel life with the 308. But on the flip side A new barrel is only about $500.00 any how. I go through 1 a year in the BR.
 
That's quite a list of rifles and calibers.

It seems to me that you're putting the cart way ahead of the horse. These chambers represent a real spread for acquisition as well as reloading from scratch for a few obscure chambers.

I shoot and reload for 340WBY, 300WBY, 223, 6.5x284, 30-06, 44MAG, now. I started reloading for 7MAG, and 30-30, among others in 1975.

I own a Cooper MDL 22, Montana Varminter, 6.5x284. I mention this because, I believe that Cooper offers rifles, of exceptional quality, in most if not all of those chambers mentioned.

I always wanted a varmint rifle that could easily kill a Moose.

These rifles you mentioned will represent a substantial investment, this along with optics and reloading equipment, makes me wonder if you really know what you're getting into. Good luck regardless.
 
Hey guys I thank each of you for the advice and input. I can't tell you how glad I am to have found this site. I am absolutely blown away by the knowledge that so many of you have. I am learning a lot just reading your posts and responses to questions etc.

dumb question: am I the OP? is that Original Poster....or something like that? forgive my ignorance.

as I have said I am new to this site and frankly to the world of precision shooting. I have to tell you a bit about myself so you all don't think I am some tool who just likes to go to the range and -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED- off other shooters.


One of the reasons I have been acquiring such a variety of rifles is that as I mentioned earlier I actually like to collect guns. for no other reason than I love guns. and I love shooting guns. different types and calibers. I just love guns. period. so I don't really have a specific caliber or classification of shooting, ranges, etc. I like it all. sometime I like to shoot big boys and sometime I like to just plink a bit with a .22. one minute my H&K 40 and the next it's the AR. but I really love to shoot different types of guns and different calibers. Hell I love shooting my gamo pellet gun in the backyard. I don't care what it is. I will enjoy shooting it!! hahaha

in saying that I am very interested in both long range shooting and learning more about reloading my own ammo. I think it would be good from a financial standpoint as well as giving me something to do that is productive and therapeutic. but I have so much to learn.

therefore I will be reading a lot of your posts in this forum picking your brains and soaking it all in. thanks again guys for the fantastic advice and information. believe me it is much appreciated.

Vince
 
I shoot a .308 at long range(when I can determine the range) due to the wind drift resistance. Trajectory is a "known" while wind drift is a "guess". The 220 Swift/6mm284 are better if you don't have a lot of time to check range and must guess at both range AND drift.
 
There's an ancient progression in shooting rifles: First, the fit of the rifle for length of pull and height of comb for proper cheek weld. Then, doing enough thoughtful shooting to make a proper coordination of sight picture and trigger finger to consistently hit where intended and in small groups.

Least expensive is the "lowly" rimfire .22. :)

Same process for the heavier recoil of a centerfire.

I use the phrase "all married up" to one or maybe two pet rifles, where the mechanics of shooting are reflexive, allowing me to concentrate on either the bullseye on paper or the desired point on a critter.

After that, add more rifles to the collection.

FWIW...
 
6mm Dasher is a great 600 yard derivative of the 6mmBR and the 6.5x47L will give better barrel life then the 6.5x284 with similar accuracy, just not as much velocity.

Bob
 
thanks again guys. much appreciated. I probably will gravitate to a couple of the calibers that i prefer as i do that now with the guns i have. but i do love to collect various guns of lots of different calibers. not really for the bulk of my shooting but just to shoot something different and to just collect different guns. i really like the 6BR and 308 for longer shots (so far) and the smaller fast calibers (17, 204, etc) for those 400 or so and in. they are so sweet. but i do like them all!! thanks again guys. i will let y'all know time to time how i like the various calibers as i acquire them and shoot them.

thanks again.
 
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