686 defense loads

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parrothead2581

New member
Just curious what loads folks are using in their 686's. I am primarily thinking "bedside 2am" application. I reside in a suburban neighborhood in a contemporary home with family, brick front and vinyl siding around the rest and am wondering if my current load of Federal 125gr. .357mag hi-shok JHPs may be too much, just right or what? Should I be considering 38+p's considering possible over-penetration of the mags, blinding muzzle flash, etc, etc? Thanks!
 
On the range, I use a similar 125 gr. JHP, but after experimenting with .38+P's, I feel this is a better round for the night stand for the reasons you stated and probably more controlable in a stressful situation. One can argue that when your life is at stake one shouldn't worry about your hearing, etc...But, that is why you have 6rds....
 
Well, I've got a 4" 686 as my bedside HD gun. I also live in suburbia -- 2 story traditional with Hardi-Plank siding all around, and the surrounding houses are similarly constructed. So -- I'd say that we are in similar conditions. Well, it is just the wife and I (no kids) but there are kids all over the neighborhood. I have the same sort of concerns that you have, and I have (for the time being) loaded up mine with .38 spl +p 125 gr Gold Dots, for the reasons you have listed: somewhat lower threat of shooting completely through the house and into the neighbors, less bang, less flash (helping conserve night vision), and less recoil (faster recovery for follow-up shots). I also feel that if properly placed, the BG won't know the difference between getting hit by one of those or by a Mag load -- if you do your job, either of them will do their job just fine.
 
ive been thinking about trying out the winchester silvertips 145gr, they sure do look pretty.

what is the critical factor when it comes to penetration? KE or momentum? id tend to think momentum, where mass has an equal effect as velocity (mv)
 
I don't know that a 125gr. 357Mag JHP has ever been known to over-penetrate. It will actually penetrate similar to a +p 124gr. 9mm. Even with 158gr. loads unless you are using JSP you don't really have to worry about over-penetration. As long as you use a JHP of any brand, it will expand and stay inside the BG's body. Over-penetration is not really that big of a concern considering most shots involved in gunfights completely miss their target.
 
"Over-penetration is not really that big of a concern considering most shots involved in gunfights completely miss their target."

And it is those misses that I am most concerned with. I am quite aware that for the most part, modern handgun SD JHP's are not prone to overpenetration when they hit a BG -- they expand, and penetrate in the 12"-14" range, even when cloth is involved. It is what happens to that miss that strikes drywall, filling the hollow point cavity and continues on as a functional FMJ. They have a real potential to shoot through multiple layers of drywall, 2x4's, siding and such, they have the real potential to shoot all the way through my house and the neighbors's as well. That is why I'm looking for a lower velocity, lower mass projectile (minimize shooting through the house) that will still expand and penetrate 12" or so if it hits the BG.

I know that military and law enforcement requirements pertaining to barrier penetration are important to them -- they need it. I really DON'T want it, not here in a pretty densely populated suburban area. I really want the bullet to stay in my house (we have no kids).

Bullet94:

Those 135 gr .38 spl +p Gold Dots are really nice, but are specifically designed for snubby use -- 3" barrel or less. If I were shooting a snubby, I'd really consider them. But I'm not, that's why I've got the 125 gr Gold Dots instead -- those are intended for longer barrel guns (4" or longer) like what I've got. Of course, the original poster didn't specify the barrel length, so they may be just what he's looking for.
 
gb_in_ga

On Speer’s web site it shows loading data for the 38 Special +p with a 135Gr Gold dot. This data was attained when shooting a 6 inch barrel. The velocities run from 818 fps to the highest velocities at 1065 fps. They also show a fired bullet from a 2 inch S&W at 861 fps. Looks like while they do expand (in a short barrel at lower velocities) they would also expand at the top velocities listed using a 6 inch barrel. Because Speer’s bullets are what they call bonded core seems to me they would work fine in a 2,3,4 or 6 inch barrel.
 
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Bullet94:

Hmm -- I was just there:

http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=7&s2=26

First -- the 125 gr and 135 gr loads are listed in seperate groups. Note that the 135 gr load is in the "short barrel" group, the 125 gr load is not.

Now look at the detail info for the loads. The 125 gr load data is taken with a 4" barrel. The 135 gr load data is taken with a 2" barrel. These are the "intended" barrel lengths for the loads. My 686 is a 4" barrel model, the 125 gr load is the correct one for the gun.

I rather suspect that the 135 gr bullet has a thinner jacket with a more pronounced hollow point cavity than the 125 gr bullet, which would lead to overexpansion in tissue and that would lead to underpenetration in living tissue. While I am concerned with overpenetration of walls, I am even more concerned with getting adequate penetration should I get a hit on a BG. Yes, I know that there is a special core/jacket bonding process used with Gold Dots, and that keeps the core and jacket from seperating. But that bonding won't keep the bullet from expanding too aggressively.
 
gb_in_ga

After looking again I think you are right that the 135gr are made for short barrels (or fired at 860 fps). I’m no expert but the only data I’ve seen for 135gr bullets were shot at 860 fps so maybe if they were shot faster the penetration might not be as good (as you stated). I believe you are right about shooting 125gr bullets in the longer barrels (with factory ammo). I load my own and can tailor my loads to my gun. I haven’t bought any factory ammo in 30 years except 7.62x39mm. I will be shooting the 135gr bullets from a 4 inch Smith but I’ll load it at 860 fps (or maybe a tad faster).
 
I suggest that anyone thinking of using .357 rounds in his/her bedroom for HD should go to the trouble of actually firing .357s in a room (presumably not your bedroom, but some room).

You may be a tougher cookie than me, but I find the flash and noise too much in an enclosed space, expecially when the light is low.

You might decide, like me, that +P .38 is a better round for an enclosed room. Plenty good enough on the receiving end too.
 
CorBon 125gr going (the factory says) 1400fps. All I know is, itll go through a 10" wide log and punch a hole in plywood 5ft behind it.
Definately go .38Spec+P by the same company if its for the house.
Semper Fi!
-Aaron
 
Bullet94:

Ah, so we were reading from different pages. I was looking at the factory load page, you were looking at the page for the bullet itself. Ok, I'll go along with that. Yes, if you load your 135 gr Gold Dots down to .38 spl standard pressures, you would get a superior load for a 4" barrel revolver -- less flash/bang than a +p factory load, and it might help with the wall penetration thing. Essentially, you would be duplicating the intended snubby +p velocities which the bullet was designed for by loading to lower pressures and having a longer barrel. I may consider doing that myself, now that you mention it, because yes, I reload for .38 Spl/.357 Mag as well -- I'm still working up my loads and I really haven't come up with a "good" SD/HD handload (yet), so I've still got the factory Gold Dots loaded up. Right now, the only SD/HD load I've got worked up is another 125 gr JHP +p load that is getting (I think, I don't have a chronograph available) somewhat higher velocity that what I'm getting out of the factory Gold Dots. Unfortunately, it still flashes a bit much. Since there's no real advantage to using those handloads over the factory Gold Dots (which I had on hand anyway), I'm keeping the Gold Dots loaded up for the time being.
 
You may be a tougher cookie than me, but I find the flash and noise too much in an enclosed space, expecially when the light is low.
Click to expand...

That really depends on the load. Some loads don't kick up too much muzzle flash. Any round is going to be loud in an enclosed area. Some loads like the watered down 125gr. Rem GS and the 130gr. HS Low-recoil are good choices that offer lower recoil and flash while still being considerably stronger than a +p38 spl load. Consider this, any 38spl load that is designed to penetrate sufficiently in a human is going to penetrate through a wall just as easily as a 125gr 357Mag.
 
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