6.5 jap?

C

Camshaft

New member
does anyone know anything about this cartridge? i cant find much info on it. my friend has a rifle chambered for it that he paid $100 for. its really old, supposedly ww-2 era. it has 4 crude "tick mark" style ingravings on the reciever. the guy that sold it to him tried to tell him that it meant that the rifle had been used to kill 4 americans. anyways, is the 6.5 round rare? what are the ballistics for it?
thanks
 
CAMSHAFT:
JAP 6.5mm Type 38 Ctg:
Introduced: 1897
1905 for the Arisaka
Other Names: 6.5X50
Japanese Arisaka
Jap 6.5mm
Type: Semi-rimless-Necked CF
Length: 3.00"
Powder: nitrocellulose
Chg: 33gr
Primer: Berdan

BULLET:

Type: Full jacketed-Pointed
Dia: .262"
Wt: 139gr
Length: 1.28"

CARTRIDGE CASE:

Length: 2.00"
of Shoulder: 1.53"
Cartridge: 2.98"
Dia Rim: .4761
Neck: .291"
head to shoulder: .20"
Length of neck: .27"
Base: .449"
Shoulder: .414"
Twist: 7.9

Factory Ballistics
Bullet: MV: ME:
139 gr (military) 2500 1930
139gr Norma 2430 1815
156 Norma 2070 1475
Bore Dia:
Min: .256"
Max: .262"
Used in the 1905 ,model 38 Japanese bolt-action rifle, a modified Mauser-type, this cartridge was actually introduced in 1897 from a discontinued rifle found unsafe in service. It was introduced in the United States after WWII as fthe result of captured rifles brought back by returning GIs and later by the surplus arms dealers who sold large number of the Model 38 rifle and carbine.
The Model 38 has an unusually strong action which allows sthe cartridge to be loaded to its full potential.

hjn
 
Look at the receiver, just ahead of the ejection port, is there some Japanese characters there, and perhaps a flower looking symbol? The flower (Mum) may be scratched or ground down. Also, is the rear of the bolt rounded - like a mushroom head with radial serrations?

Chances you have a Type 38 Arisaka. In unaltered condition, it would be chambered in 6.5 Arisaka - a.k.a. 6.5 Jap. I believe that the European designation would be 6.5x50. Ammo is available from Norma, but like all things from Norma, it would be pricey - @ $30.00+ a box of 20.

If it is unknown what the caliber is, the best thing that you could do (other then making it a wall hanger) would be to have a 'smith do a chamber casting. This would reveal if the rifle had been re-chambered to some other cartridge - ie: 6.5 Roberts, or something similar.

Strong bolt action, (if it turns out to be a Type 38) when compared with the other WWII bolt actions. In it's current form, it would be a decent deer rifle using the Norma loads, but even better if you were to handload. You need to do a safety check of it first. I don't believe that there were any 'last ditch' versions made, but I wouldn't take that chance myself.

Incidentally, if the Mum is intact, the rifle is worth more to a collector, as this means that the rifle was probably taken as a war trophy.

Unkel Gilbey
 
Camshaft,

Probably those tic marks were an attempt to remove the Imperial crest before capture to avoid disgracing the Emperor. I can't imagine a Japanese doing something so ego-boosting as keeping a tally of his hits, especially on Imperial property.
 
The "Mum" was removed at the orders of our government when the rifle were brought home by returning GI's. Before you shoot the rifle, remove it from the stock. If the (I believe) lower tang is not a seperate piece, (It could also be the upper, I just don't remember)don't shoot the rifle. It will be one of the cast version that will blow up. They were for blank use and training only. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that. be careful.
Paul B.
 
Paul has a very good point.

There were a LOT of training rifles that came back that were not meant to be fired with full-power ammo. It could be dangerous to do so.

Have it checked over by a gunsmith.

The Type 38 Arisakas are, generally, incredibly strong rifles.

The 6.5x50 cartridge would be a great cartridge for a light kicking rifle for someone who doesn't like recoil. Very good ballistics, but there have never been any production sporting rifles made for it, ammo is expensive, and the Arisaka isn't really that good of a sporting rifle.
 
In the 60's an airman had a prewar 6.5 barreled action(complete)stored in our gun room. He was discharged and left the rifle. We made numerous attempts to contact him so we could send him his rifle but never could locate him. The NCOIC was afraid of it being there because the owner was not in the service any longer. I said I would "take care" of it for him.
The rifle was in beautiful condition! Pristine blueing the mum was in perfect condition the rifling was like new! Headspace was right on the money.
Fifteen bucks back then for a Fajen semi-finished stock, 7 bucks for a set of RCBS dies in 6.5 Jap, and about 3 boxes of Norma ammo at about $10 a box (man that was high back then)for brass. Primers, and powder, I had, so all that was needed was a box or 2 of .264 120 grain bullets and presto one fine shooter!
Biggest decision was when a friend offered me an even swap. The 6.5 jap for a pristine S&W Model 29, Decisions, Decisions! Damn I miss that 6.5 to this day! But that 29 was a great shooter.
 
"The 6.5x50 cartridge would be a great cartridge for a light kicking rifle for someone who doesn't like recoil. Very good ballistics, but there have never been any production sporting rifles made for it, ammo is expensive, and the Arisaka isn't really that good of a sporting rifle. "


old topic but well worth reviving

that is a very good piece of advice. The cartridge itself is a GREAT cartridge. It will do everything the old 250-3000 Savage will do, and it a knat's lash behind the 6.5 x 55 Swede. Just look at the case dimension comparisons, because it all boils down to powder capacity, all the 25 and 264 cal. rifles shoot basically the same bullets, with only slight dimensional difference between the calibers. The only real difference between all the 25's and 264's is POWDER CAPACITY.

A 250 Savage is basically a 6.35 x 49 mm cartridge

The 6.5 Jap is a 6.5 x 50 mm cartridge

Then there's the 6.5 x 55 Swede which as we all know, is a very good cartridge indeed, quite accurate.

And finally the 6.5 x 57 from Europe, and the 6.5 x 257 wildcat used in USA that was a rechamber of the Type 38 rifles. I have a 6.5 x 257 and really like it, very accurate rifle.

for the sake of this post, I won't get into the belted magnums or wildcats, like the 264 Win Mag, 6.5/284, etc.

The original 6.5 Jap cartridge is right there in the mix, how bad can it be ? It has about the same cartridge capacity as the old 250 Savage, but with an .008" wider diameter bullet. The 2 are virtually the same. With the strength of the Type 38 rifles, I'd not hesitate to use any 250 Savage reloading info for the 6.5 Jap. It would equal a 250 Savage, which in its day was quite a cartridge itself.

The "bad rep" the 6.5 Jap got in the war, was because the smallish projectile is not a brush cutter. Ask any old military vet from WWII Korea Nam, he'll tell you the .308 and 30-06 with FMJ's would shoot right through large trees and hit enemy hiding on the other side, using the tree for cover.

I've fired many FMJ 30-06 and 308 rounds, and they will go through several large trees in a row, one shot. So this is true.

With the small 6.5 the bullet will stop in the first tree. Same thing with a .223 Remington. So in battlefield conditions with cover, a large caliber 30 rifle, will cut through trees, walls, etc. better.

but for deer, small game, varmint hunting, the 6.5 Jap is as good as any.
 
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