5.56 range ammo as defense round

I

IanS

New member
Particularly 55 grain FMJ-BT by PMC and American Eagle out of a 16" barrel? Would these count as "acceptable" rounds for defensive purposes?
 
Ian,
These rounds that you refer to will undoubtedly stop a human, but the excessive penetration would be undesirable.
A varmint round loaded to something like 40-55gr hp or sp would be somewhat more frangible and would provide better stopping power.
Basically, its gonna slow down quick, leave a bigger, more ragged hole and not carry through to the next door neigbours' house.
 
If you like 55 grain, I would just switch to M193. It will frag as long as it's doing 2700 fps. Out of your 16 inch barrel that would be about 110 meters, if I remember correctly. I never used PMC but the American Eagle is a little under powered. If you switch to M193 your practice ammo and defensive ammo would be the same.
 
What kind of range did you have in mind? 5.56 will make for a bad day for anyone.

If it's close-in, it should yaw and fragment at the cannurle (sp?).

Otherwise, make sure you have clean lanes of fire, background included.
 
"Defense"? Seems to me it's gonna be a cold day down below before an ordinary citizen-homeowner really needs to worry about distances of over 10 to 30 yards. Any ammo will suffice, at "defense" distances. Shooting a rifle at somebody off at 100 yards ain't defense; that's attack.

Art
 
M193 ball (Winchester Q3131A) is a good choice for a CQB load. If you can't get it, any of the ballistic-tip HPs such as the Hornady V-Max, Nosler Ballistic Tip, or Sierra BlitzKing will also work well.
 
Art makes a good point. 100 yds is attack distance, not defense.
Self defense is a sudden emergency, in which case any ammo you got is acceptable. IMM (In My Mind), 223 is for up close and sudden, or for suppressive fire, or small game, or poaching medium game like deer...;)
 
I have to kinda disagree. 100 yards can be attack distance, but what about the Korean buissness owners who had to shoot from the rooftops to protect themselves during the Rodney King riots. They were shot at with shotguns, pistols and rifles. I would rather have a bullet that will frag at 110 meters and hopefully not need it. I sure wouldn't look for something good enough for 10 to 30 yards. You never know.
 
Home defense round

I read an article authored by Massad Ayoob who after studying the subject, I think conluded that his first choice for a home defense was an AR with 40 gr. bullet. That includes evaluation of handguns and shotguns. Over penetration through wallboard etc. was included in that analysis.
 
"Art makes a good point. 100 yds is attack distance, not defense."

I respectfully disagree. A bad guy popping off rounds with a 9mm handgun can make several man-sized hits at 100 yards.

If I was the man who was being shot at with that 9mm, I would want to engage with a rifle, just about any rifle.

Rick
 
.223 inside a house? Yikes. What did you say? Never mind the latest lazer/phaser bullets like Longbow or Blitz, those things hurt my ears.

I know, I know all the GSCs will post that the Dreaded Demons of Darkness use them, but the DDDs use ear protection. Maybe the GSCs sleep in their Tac-6s (along with the mandatory BAK)? Which may be a good idea.

Each to his own, but I just cringe at hearing that .223 go off inside my fashionable bachelor pad.
 
Chickrepelent & RickD, I freely admit I was not present in any of the "battles" of the LA riots. However, I didn't see any TV coverage of long-range shooting (from any defensive standpoint), nor did I ever read of such.

It seems to me that running out into the open to shoot is not "defense" in the normal use of the word. Scenario: The BG, with gun, comes into your store. You force his retreat from within your store, out to the street. You're gonna go out and keep shooting at him? At 100 yards? With stray people all around? And if there is a riot going on, why in God's name are you running around out there in the wide open? Leave a perfectly good brick building? Duh?

If one is on a rooftop, one still is not justified in shooting unless the Bad Guys are specifically threatening one's property--so how do you justify shooting at somebody who is some 50 or more yards away? Ever been in front of a Grand Jury?

Again: "Defense" of home or store generally presumes one is within one's property, dealing with evil people who are also on that property.

To get back to the original question, I would not be particularly concerned as to the type or weight of bullet in a .223 cartridge. Within a couple of hundred yards, any of them will dissuade anybody from further evil. I'd select factory ammo to try to avoid a hostile DA's "Why'd you load those evil, man-killing bullets?"
 
Hey folks,

I have to agree with Art. To me, self defense seems more likely to be a lot closer than 100 yards. With that in mind, a 12 GA shotgun can do a lot of things with some varied ammo. My wife and I have a number of rifles, handguns, and shotguns, but, for all around defense use, I tend to feel more comfortable with a Mossburg pump with a 20 inch barrel and a full length magazine that holds eight standard rounds. I put a lot of value in 0-Buck shot, and pumpkin balls and #4 shot can also be quite useful for defensive purposes.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile
 
Art, You don't consider Winchester Q3131A factory ammo? That's M193. It isn't even hollow point. What could be more PC than that?
No, I've never been before a grand jury. I'd rather be their than dead because I didn't have ammo that would perform to the distance needed. Why limit your self.
That would be like putting one round in your beside gun because a prosecuter would frown on finding 10 bullets in your attacker. You load your mags because you never know what will happen and you want to be prepared.
 
chick, maybe I've "autopsied" too many deer and coyotes and suchlike, and sorta know what high-speed bullets do. What I'm saying is that when folks go to worrying about "which bullet?" for self defense, they're sorta picking flyspecks out of pepper--which ain't much of a career, to my way of thinking.

If I have to deal with Bad Guys, singly or en masse, and what I have shoots the .223 cartridge, the least of my concerns is the kind of bullet. They all will work quite nicely, so long as I can shoot worth a hoot.

On a scale of one to ten, the type of bullet is a one, and one's skill in shooting is a ten. The other ten-sized item is the rational use of one's grey mattter.

:), Art
 
Hell, ANYTHING will do Nicely!

From .22 rimfire up to an elephant gun.
If you are in a 'crunch' situation, shoot what you have!
*Note* from experience with GSW's and their aftermath,
people who have been shot with anything at all, tend to STOP
whatever they were doing that got them shot.
Being shot tends to wreck your whole day.
Range? Given any choice in the matter, I'd shoot from 10 to 30 feet, at that distance, I'm quite likely to hit a human sized target with anything I had - even a handgun, and the aim is likely to be lethal.
 
Yeah, right. Defense means protecting your a**, and if a guy is shooting at you from 100 yds with a 9mm, the defense minded tactical response would be to run the other way, or turn and fight, if the situation demanded it. When you turn to fight you would be attacking them. We are not soldiers. There is no open warfare in the states where rifle shots at 100 yds could be considered defensive in nature. If times change in that respect, our thinking about what is defensive will have to change also.
 
I live in a house where I can't imagine needing to shoot at long distances. If I lived on a ranch, I might look at things a bit differently. Previously, I kept my Carbon 15 as a defense against multiple intruders at close distance. The red-dot scope and mounted tactical light made it a good choice. The C-15 now sits in the safe. It has been replaced with a modified 870 with extended magazine, Vang mods and tactical light. Upon researching the topic, I came to the conclusion that both were equally lethal, but that in my area, the shotgun was more politically defensible after the fact. Granted, I live in the most liberal part of California. John, the Taliban traitor, lived in the same city as yours truly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top