5.56/.223 Brass interchangeable

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ninosdemente

New member
I currently have AR-15 5.56. So I know I can shoot either 5.56 and .223. I have not been able to load 5.56 as I haven't purchased the small base .223 dies for this yet. I have a couple of boxes of Remington .223 about 3 boxes of 50. If I shoot those on the ar-15, can I eventually resize and load to use for my .223 bolt action? Am I stuck using those brass for the AR only? Reason why I ask is because I don't have any more 5.56 ammo and have those 3 boxes that can be put to good use.

Funny as I have brass, powder and projectiles already. Just have been dragging on the dies. Thanks in advanced.
 
I can use my RCBS .223 FL dies then? What is the purpose of the ar small base dies then?
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Yes you can use your FL dies. Small base dies were designed because some chambers are cut to the minimum size in the tolerance. Some of those chambers don't cycle well in an autoloader. If you experience failure to fully close into battery with your handloaded rounds, then small base dies might help you fix it. Make a dummy round with the FL sizing die and test it.

Your brass is also interchangeable. Loads may or may not need to be tweaked due to different case capacity. But that is true of commercial brass from each of the manufacturers in any caliber. You will need to full length resize when switching from rifle to rifle. But your brass will not change enough when fired in one gun to stop it from being sized to fit any other gun.
 
Unless you're using military brass previously fired in a machine gun, it's highly unlikely you will ever require a small-base die -- and even then only once.

AND.... if you full-length resize, you can use whatever you load for the AR in any bolt gun as well
 
Thanks guys, you help me saved at least $40-$50 on a set of dies I really didn't need. Good to know I can use the dies I have already.

Glad to know I can use the brass also. Somewhat kicking my butt now as I should have asked this 5 days ago, would have plenty of time to load for the AR. Lol. At least I know now and can start loading and test. Thanks a mil again guys.
 
Good to know I can use the dies I have already.
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Understand this, you can use the dies you have and we're saying they SHOULD work, but we're not guaranteeing that they will size brass small enough to work in your AR. They should, but every gun is a little different.

Where the confusion comes from is some people think you need small base dies without actually testing to see if you need them or not.

Load normally, full length sizing your brass. IF it doesn't chamber properly in your AR, THEN get a small base die and see if that cures the problem.

No point to getting the die, UNTIL you know you actually need it.

Good Luck
 
I am the exception - three ARs and not one will reliably chamber loads made on full length Lee dies. I bought the RCBS small base and never looked back. There is no extra effort to using them, either. One has a 223 Wylde chamber, the other 5.56m chambers. Two barrels are Bear Creek, the third PSA.
Having said that - the ONLY difference you would worry about is making 5.56mm LOADS. The only place I found that data is in the Western Powders online book, hotter loads for 5.56mm, but regular .223 loads do quite well for me so far. Just make sure if you have milspec brass to have a decrimping tool, (I use the RCBS swager die set), and trim to proper length. Have fun!
 

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I've heard of the occasional AR causing the grief you describe. People forget that dies have tolerances. RCBS told me their small base die diameter tolerances run around 0.002". Standard dies do too. The fact you have three ARs with the same symptom suggests to me the particular Lee sizing die you have is on the large end of the tolerance range and is the issue. They have a reputation for being on the generous side, which extends brass life by leaving cases a little closer to chamber diameter, but it sounds like too close in your case. The bottom line: someone else's standard die is likely to have solved the problem, too. But again, the only advantage is a little more case life.
 
I am the exception - three ARs and not one will reliably chamber loads made on full length Lee dies
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It happens. Which is the point I was trying to make. You got 3ARs that choke on brass done with Lee dies. I had an AR, a Mini-14 and a T/C Contender, all chambered flawlessly with brass done with standard RCBS dies (Not small base).

Another guy with different guns & dies might have different results.
 
"...5.56/.223 Brass interchangeable..." Yes. The case dimensions are the same.
"...three ARs and not one will..." AR's are like that. Everybody and his brother plus all their cousins are making AR's. Some are 5.56. Some .223. Some .223 Wilde. Bubba the AR guy may not being working to SAAMI spec because he thinks he knows better too.
In the beginning, before there was an internet, .223 Rem and 5.56NATO were the same thing. Literally millions of rounds were loaded and fired interchangeably with no fuss.
Like Amp says, some AR's require the Small Base dies. Some will be happy with regular Full Length sizing.
Using the same brass in several rifles isn't a .223/5.56NATO thing. Been doing it for eons with an M1 Rifle and my '03A4 by simply FL resizing. No fuss. No bother.
 
44amp... thanks did not add the not needing it for now. But I do understand that I might still need to... hopefully not fingers crossed.

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armoredman, thanks for the info and the picture.

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T. O'Heir, thanks for the reply.


So I did try the brass and jammed and in some instances did not load a round to chamber. This happened more vs me using Winchester 5.56.

Now, can I just size only brass and try it that way instead of making a full dummy round. Guess won't hurt to do both either way. Fingers crossed!! lol. Thanks again for the help.
 
.Now, can I just size only brass and try it that way instead of making a full dummy round. Guess won't hurt to do both either way.
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You can use just the brass and load it with the barrel pointing down, leave the action locked open. Should drop all the way in and fall back out. Close the action on it and it should extract without extra effort than opening an empty chamber. The best test will be loaded ammo. But I would load a small batch for testing to start with. I hate pulling bullets....
 
thallub said:
i've reloaded for five different brands of AR-15 rifles; none required small base dies.
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The only time I have had to use small base was reloading some of the stuff shot in some M-16 A1 rifles our SWAT team had. They were some big chambered rascals. Big difference between them and my varmint rifle. Regular dies would not get brass to fit without being sticky on close.
 
Colt HBAR here, shot it for ten years on NRA's National Match Course of competition...never needed small base dies and I used military brass exclusively. Rod
 
The root of the problem is spring-back. Back when the government still supplied ammunition for matches, I picked up a number of odds and ends of mixed LC 30-06 brass that had been fired in loaner Garands. The chamber sizes were wide in variety. Resizing the mixed cases in the same Redding die, they came out with as much as 0.005" difference in length from head to mid-shoulder.

We commonly speak of spring-back of 0.001”, but that's for brass originally fired in the same chamber we are resizing to shoot it in again. When a case is oversized enough, it springs back more. This is due to being sized toward a smaller a percentage of its as-fired volume.
 
Just an FYI,

i load a lot of lake city once fired brass. Never used a small based die. All of my .223/556 loads are done on a dillon 550 these days.

However, 7.62x51 lake city and commercial. 308 brass is not always interchangeable. All of the lake city 7.62 brass i have has a lower case water overflow capacity than commercial. 308. Generally speaking, with IMR 4064 you may find that 1 or 2 grains less in lake city brass will yield the same velocity as commercial .308 brass.

So, yes 556/.223 is as interchangeable as moving between different brands of commercial brass, but military 7.62 vs .308 is not.
 
I've heard of the occasional AR causing the grief you describe. People forget that dies have tolerances. RCBS told me their small base die diameter tolerances run around 0.002". Standard dies do too. The fact you have three ARs with the same symptom suggests to me the particular Lee sizing die you have is on the large end of the tolerance range and is the issue. They have a reputation for being on the generous side, which extends brass life by leaving cases a little closer to chamber diameter, but it sounds like too close in your case. The bottom line: someone else's standard die is likely to have solved the problem, too. But again, the only advantage is a little more case life.
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Well shiver me timbers, why didn't I think of that? Probably because someone told me I had to have small base dies. Oh well, the brass seems to be lasting pretty well, and I have a ton of brass from various places. I don't segregate brass, either, I know, a huge no-no, but I don't shoot really much farther than maybe 200 yards anyway. As Evan Marshall said, "minute of felon" is good enough for me.
The builder who actually put the two home builds together used to build ARs professionally, and did a great job, considering he originally had to work with me donated Sabre Defense one piece poly lowers...drove him nuts. It now wears a PSA MOE+ lower, and I am quite happy with it.
 
Through various wheeling and dealing I've ended up with three sets of dies in .223. A standard Lee set, a standard RCBS set, and a set of RCBS small base dies. After sizing a fair amount and measuring with all three sets I found no difference between the RCBS dies, and the Lee dies actually measured .0005 smaller on average on the lowest part of the case where the die ended resizing. All my rifles functioned perfectly fine whichever set I used. So who knows sometimes.
 
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