480 Ruger not so weak after all?

J

JohnK

New member
When I first read about the 480 Ruger I was unimpressed. Going by the ballistics that Hornady published, a 325gr XTP at 1350fps my first thought was 'Why?'. Ballistics for the original load was margially higher than a 44 Magnum or heavy 45 Colt with a slightly larger bullet. However in such a strong revolver as the Super Redhadwk and with larger case capacity I thought that it must be capable of more, and many others thought highly of the new caliber - along with many who derided it as being a "poor mans 454", so I kept reading hoping I would see something more from the caliber.

New data from Hodgdon for the 480 has revised my opinion. This new data puts the 480 Ruger solidly in 454 Casull territory, a ways behind in energy but ahead in momentum and TKO and all at a lower pressure than the famous 454. The extra bullet weight and larger diameter should give the 480 an advatage when hunting big game, making those less than perfect shots possible by having deeper penetration with those 370-400+gr bullets.

A ready supply of inexpensive brass and bullets seems to be the major hurdle for the 480 to overcome at this point. I don't think a lack of extensive factory ammo is a major problem since calibers in this realm tend to be the handloaders domain. Paying $15 for 50 480 bullets vs paying $17 for 250 45 caliber bullets in the same style and similar bullet weight could be a problem for many handloaders.

I know that for me unless I can find someplace to purchase 480 bullets for a reasonable price won't be investing in a 480 Ruger - I'll get my Super Redhawk in 45 Colt/454 Casull instead.

John

Factory Hornady 480 Ruger, 325gr@1350fps
Energy: 1315
Momentum: 62.7
Taylor KO: 29.8

454 Casull, 300gr@1750fps
Energy: 2039.7
Momentum: 75
Taylor KO: 34.1

New Hodgdon 480 data #1, 370gr@1454fps
Energy: 1736.6
Momentum: 76.9
Taylor KO: 36.5

New Hodgdon 480 data #2, 405gr@1337fps
Energy: 1607.3
Momentum: 77.4
Taylor KO: 36.7
 
I started off not being a big fan of the 480. I still don't plan on selling any of the 44s to get one. But from what I have read, handloaders have really gotten some terrific results with them, far beyond what the factory ammo is doing. What will really make or break the 480 will be hunting results this fall. This is just my guess but I cannot conceive of hunters seeing an appreciable difference between the 44 mag and 480 Ruger in terms of what the two rounds will do to game. And I really don't see much more of an advantage with the 454 either. Another thing to consider is the introduction of Garrett ammunition. Garrett pushes the 44 mag as far as it can safely be pushed and the results are nothing short of awesome, more than enough for game shots on 99% of the game you are likely to pursue with a revolver in 99% of the situations you are likely to find yourself in - given of course the inherent limitations in handgun hunting. If you are worried about possibly becoming bear food, leave the sixgun at home and bring a rifle. Time will tell. Around here, 480's are selling like crazy. Could just be "newgunitis". I have absolutely no need for a 454 SRH, but I sure want one.
 
Regarding Garrett:

Garrett's published load data for their 330grain "Ruger Redhawk/SRH ONLY" .44Mag+P load:

330-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST LONG-HAMMERHEAD AT 1385-FPS

THIS 44 MAGNUM AMMO IS RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN RUGER REDHAWKS AND SUPER REDHAWKS.

ENERGY: 1400 FT/LBS; TAYLOR KNOCKOUT VALUE: 28; MEPLAT: .320"; CHAMBER PRESSURE: 40,000-PSI; SECTIONAL DENSITY: .255; TRAJECTORY: +2" @ 50-YDS; ZERO @ 100-YDS; -7" @ 150-YDS

Source:
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp

I don't doubt that the SRH platform can produce more energy but, gawd, WHY!? How much more recoil can anyone handle?

Another thing: Garrett claims that by making their rounds "nose heavy" it punches deeper because on impact, the rear of the bullet doesn't try and pass the front. That's why "pointy nosed" rounds of the same weight may not penetrate deeper like intuition says they would; sure, the nose is more streamlined but once it starts yawing even a little bit in flesh, velocity falls off rapidly.

I can't claim enough expertise to say whether or not it's true, but, it certainly sounds plausible.

This stuff is a little bit over $1/rd, $65 for 50. Not bad for rounds you use so little of.

The advantage is that the same gun can pack a wide variety of milder loads, something you can't say the same for in .480!

Last point, this same monster .44Mag load can be shot out of a STANDARD REDHAWK - felt recoil will go up, but you'd have the most compact "bearstopper handgun setup" available.

Garrett also sells a milder 310grain .44Mag rated for all good-condition .44Mags, not just the Redhawk. If you personally have a hard time controlling those 330s above, no sweat, switch to these 310s. Again, you've got flexibility in power level here unheard of in some of the specialty hunting calibers.

(Hey, I just thought of something: the .44+P 330grain above should also work great in a Dan Wesson .44Supermag gun, if you've got one laying around :)).

Jim
 
mobias: I agree that how the 480 performs in the field will be what makes the reputation for it. From what I've seen/read so far I expect it to shine, people are getting 1.5" 50 yard groups so accuracy isn't an issue, and as we've seen it's at least as powerful as the 44 magnum so it should be a great hunting round for 90% or more of people who hunt with it.

I don't expect it to really do BETTER than a properly loaded 44 magnum, but I can't see it doing worse. I suspect a deer isn't going to be able to tell the difference between a .429" hole through it and a .475" hole :)

Jim: Garret has been making some accurate HOT 44 rounds for a long time now, I've seen nothing but good things about them. And as far as I know they're the only factory 44 round that's legal to use in Wa state for Elk. They say it's for Redhawk/SRH only but I bet the Colt Anaconda/Taurus/Dan Wesson revolvers would handle it just fine - those three are also massive strong guns, much beefier than the S&W.
 
JohnK: according to the Garrett site, the 330grain load was specifically matched to the Ruger's slightly over-long cylinder.

They plain won't fit in an N-Frame S&W .44, Anaconda or whatever.

When I mentioned the DW .44Supermag gun, what I was thinking is that it's an over-length cylinder to handle the longer .44Supermag cartridge. Plus it's VERY strong. So that one gun can almost certainly take the 330grain Garrett .44.

The 310grain Garrett is probably good enough for most needs, and that'll fit any good standard .44Mag.

Jim
 
Ah, thanks Jim. I was thinking strictly in terms of strength, not cylinder length. You're right then, the 445 SuperMag may very well be the only other revolver that would fit them. I don't know how long the Taurus or Anaconda cylinders are if they'll fit, but the Casull definately has a short cylinder compared to other large revolvers.
 
Yes the overlength will fit in the DWs. I have shot my "superhot" superredhawk loads in the DW 445 without concern too. (and these are about 100fps faster than the Garretts).


Recoil isn't that bad btw. It is less than the 454 in my 6inch FA.

-CAL
 
The cylinder length of the Super Blackhawk will handle the 330gr load as well. Actualy, the felt recoil will be lessened because of the single actions frame style. Ittl' roll with the punch instead of putting it into your palms. Oh, a wide set of grips will help spread it out too. I've learned the hard way ... bit by the stock grips.
 
Our 330-grain Long-Hammerhead ammo is too long for use in the Ruger Super Blackhawk. The Ruger Super Blackhawk has a cylinder length identical to that of the S&W. The Ruger Redhawk and Super Redhawk uses a cylinder that is .050-inch longer than the Super Blackhawk.

Randy Garrett
www.garrettcartridges.com
 
Well I guess I've never measured the overall lenght of the cylinder on my SBH. I've taken it as fact that what the magazine writers said that the Super Blackhawk had the same cylinder length as the Redhawk.Oops. What is the overall length of those 330 grain stuffed cartriges? I'm going to have to get out my calipers now. Thanks.
 
Well I guess I've never measured the overall lenght of the cylinder on my SBH. I've taken it as fact that what the magazine writers said that the Super Blackhawk had the same cylinder length as the Redhawk.Oops. What is the overall length of those 330 grain stuffed cartriges? I'm going to have to get out my calipers now. Thanks.
 
I don't have any of the loads to measure but from what Randy said I'd guess they're .050-inch longer than the Super Blackhawk cylinder can handle.

My guess based on the max length cartridge my Blackhawk can handle is that the 330gr Garret load is 1.785-1.79" long.
 
OF COURSE the the .480 Ruger will perform well on game. When loaded up to its full potential, it has practically the same ballistics as a .454 Casull, doesn't it?

I don't see anything wrong with the .480, but with the .454 available, the only reason I see for buying a .480 is "newgunitis." If you want one, fine. Enjoy it. I'm sure it will serve you well. But comparing it to a .454 and arguing which one is "better" is really splitting hairs. The biggest difference is that the .480 has fewer component choices for reloading and they'll be more expensive when you find them. It seems like an "increased markup on a fad cartridge makes the company more money" issue to me, rather than Ruger, Hornady, et al. filling an empty ballistic niche.

Personally, considering what can be done in a .44 using either Garrett's loads or equivalent handloads, I don't feel much need for either a .454 or .480. Now, if Ruger could only be persuaded to use the stronger steel in their .44's like they do in their .454's . . .
 
Since Taylor's research on big bores we know that anything the 44 mag will do the 45 long colt will do at approximately 20 percent less pressure. Increasing the size to 458 (460 ) should do even better. Hot 44 mags with blunt noses work to a point but going up in caliber gets you away from the atrocious pressures. Most companies loading hot 44 will not release their pressures. Mr. Garret do you publish yours?
 
Rugercollector:

Anyone who visits my website and views the Products Page can see that I publish my chamber pressures. It is true that the 45 and larger calibers can generate as much power as the 44 with less pressure, but that is misleading. The 45 has to work at lower pressure due to its thinner chamber walls. I have nothing at all against the 45 Colt, it is a great cartridge. Maybe the best. But it cannot work at the same pressures as the 44 due to the thinner chamber walls that typify the guns in which it is chambered. Although the pressures generated by full power 44 Magnum loads are too high for safe use in thinner walled 45s, those pressures are entirely safe in the thicker chamber walls that typify the smaller 44 Magnum. The best arguement for the 45 is not its ability to generate 44 Magnum power at lower pressure, but that the bigger bullets can support broader meplats.

Best regards, Randy Garrett
www.garrettcartridges.com
 
I just received last week a box each of the Garrett 310-gr and 330-gr. cartridges. I haven't touched one off yet as I have been too busy (this is just an excuse - I'm really too scared). Randy does publish the pressure data for his cartridges:

310-gr SuperHardCast @ 1325 fps
Chamber pressure: 34,000 psi

330-gr +P SuperHardCast @ 1385 fps
Chamber presure: 40,000 psi

Jim, the data sheet I received with my ammo shows the Taylor KO value of the 330-gr round being 26, not 28.

Two questions:

1. What is the Taylor KO value and why is it different than energy levels?

2. The above data are for the 7.5" barrel version of the SRH. I have the 9.5" version - how much will this increase velocity and energy levels in my gun?
 
Wow, this post sure got dragged up from a long way back!

Rock the Taylor KO=weight*velocity*caliber/7000 the value you get isn't any standard unit of measure, it's just the TKO. This formula was developed by a well know (infamous?) African hunter John Taylor after seeing who knows how many thousands of animals shot with probably every caliber known to man.

The TKO formula is different from the formula for energy which is energy=weight*velocity^2)/450436 so the values are totally different. As you can see the energy of a given round puts a high preimum on the velocity, while most big bore shooters and hunters tend to place more value on momentum and so look at the TKO value more than just energy.

Randy will have to give you the definative answer on what kind of velocity you'll get from your 9.5" SRH, but every gun is unique you may have higher velocities than what he measured in a 7.5", or you may have lower. I would guess you may see another 100fps from your gun, but without shooting them over a chrono that's just what it is - a guess.

I have calculators online that you can use to play "what if" games to see how much different velocities effect the engergy/momentum/TKO at http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.htm.
 
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