45lc lever rifle info needed

C

cpt-t

New member
I just inherited a really nice Lever Action Rifle in 45LC from the estate of the best hunting partner other than my Son that I have ever had. This was his Cowboy Gun and it was very special to him and he was extremely proud of it, and shot it very well. And my Son and I will treasure this rifle, and it will never be for sale while we own it. The rifle has a 30inch octagon barrel. It say on the top of the barrel in front of rear sight ((( NAVY ARMS CO RIDGEFIELD N.J. MADE IN ITALY ))). On the frame under the lever it says ((( A. UBERTI - MADE IN ITALY ))). And also it say ((( CAL.45 LC. ))) on top of the barrel behind the rear sight. The Receiver, Lever, and Hammer are beautifully Case Hardened. On the top of the Case Hardened Tang it says
((( MODEL. 1873. ))). The Wood on the stock is very nice and well fitted. Also the Rifle has extremely nice checkering on both the forearm stock and the rear butt stock. And the blueing is very well done and very deep blue in color. The Rifle has CAT. 599# stamped in front of the lever, and 7062# on the bottom base tang. I really don`t know anything about UBERTI Rifles or Pistols. But I was hoping someone could tell me the quality level of the rifle, when it was made. And for insurance purposes the rifles value. I am sorry but I don`t know how to post pictures. Any Help would be greatly appreciated, and I thank You in advance for any help you can provide.
ken
 
Back in the early 60's, if not late 50's Uberti began making replica black powder revolvers like the Walker, 1851 Navy, and 1860 Army for Navy Arms.
Then they began making replica cartridge revolvers and replicas of Winchester lever-action rifles like the Henry, 1866 brass frame, and 1873 Winchester.
Later they began making just about every 19th century American firearm.

Quality was always pretty darn good, but quality got really good with guns like the 1873 Winchester replicas.

These are magnificent replicas that are very authenticate to the originals, with only a two-piece spring loaded firing pin being the only major difference.
Uberti has offered these in barrels from 16 inch "Trapper" models to 30 inch "Long Range" versions.
Typical calibers have been the original 44-40 and several other original calibers, with the .45 Colt being something very popular today, but which Winchester never chambered the rifles for back then.
They also offer fancy "Deluxe" versions with semi-pistol grip stock and hand checkering.

These have been imported under a number of importers, with Navy Arms being the first.
Navy Arms had the first Uberti black powder revolvers made for them to import back in the 50's or 60's and that started the whole modern replica industry in the USA.

Navy Arms got out of the black powder business for some years, but is again selling various replica guns.

One of the top importers today is Cimarron Arms, who sell the entire Uberti line, including all the Winchester lever rifles.
These are NOT cheap guns, with prices starting well over $1,000 and up.

To see some current MSRP's:

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/
 
Navy Arms imported guns through NJ from 1962 to 2002. If you do some research, I'm sure you'll find what you are looking for.

You can try the current Navy Arms... but might not help you. They are Gibbs, who bought the name not too long ago (want to say like 2014). Can't hurt to email them... maybe they have some of Navy Arms' records.
 
Dfariswheel: Thank You so much for your information. For I am truly at a loss on any real first hand knowledge about Uberti Firearms, Pistols or Rifles. This rifle is pretty heavy compared to my SS Rossi 20inch round barreled rifle in 45LC. Now what I have been told is that this Uberti 45LC Rifle will not have the strength of my SS Rossi 45LC. And that I should stay with reloads that copy factory 45LC ammo. Which will be no problem for my reload for the 45LC`s I shoot is 7.0grs of WIN 231 and a 255gr Hard Cast LRNFP Bullets. And My Son and I used this load 98% of the time. In both our S/A & D/A Pistols and our Lever and Pump Action Rifles. The 45LC is one of my all time favorites. And I have been shooting them since I was a very Young Boy. Because that is mainly what my Grandfather and most of his old Cowboy Shooting Partners Shot. And I spent as much time as I possibly could growing up in the company of these Old Men shooting their S/A Pistols & Lever Action Rifles. And setting for hours just spellbound listening to them tell their absolutely wonderful and fascinating stories of when they were Young. I can't tell you just how much I idealized thoes Old Men, and just how much I miss being with them. I did not mean to get long winded on you guys but this was a very special magical time in My Life.
ken
 
The 1873 toggle-link action is not as strong as the Browning-designed 1892 Winchester action that the Rossi is based on.

The 73 can handle standard .45 Colt pressures found in most commercial ammunition, stay away from the hotter stuff from places like Buffalo Bore.

If you reload, stick to standard pressures.
Denis
 
There should be two letters in a box, that is the date code. The CAT number is a number assigned to all Italian cartridge guns made for export.
 
Hawg: Thanks for your info. There is a ((( BOX ))) with the letters ((( BI ))) in it, right in front of the Lever on the receiver. Do You know what that means. Hope so for I haven't got a clue as to what it means.

mikejonestkd: Thanks for Your info as well. I looked up the sight you gave me and, it appears Uberti does not make rifles like mine in 30inch barrels any more they only list 24 1/2 inch barrels. Another listing said I may have a Deluxes Long Range Target Rifle. And it talks about shooting 200+ yards targets with 4" to 6" inch groups. I have never shot at any type of targets much past 100yds, with any of our 45LC Lever Guns. So this just might get very interesting and a lot of fun. Is it really possible to hit a 200+ yd target with 4" to 6" inch groups with a 45LC without using my rifle as I would a Mortar.

Thanks Again for All Your Help:
ken
 
A 73 replica with a 30" octagon barrel.

Excuse me a moment while I contemplate how cool that would be...

OK, I'm back and that is a way cool rifle. I have a 92 clone with a 24" octagon tube and I like it a lot.

Yeah, the 73 isn't the strongest action so no hot rod ammo. But man that sounds like fun to own and shoot.

You friend must have really appreciated having you as a buddy. Think of him when you shoot the gun.
 
Jim Watson: Thanks for the information on the date my rifle was made.

SaxonPig: Yeah I think this Rifle is really ((( COOL ))) also. And it was given to me by my best Friend and the best Shooting Partner other than my Son I ever had. I didn't mention this, and it turns some people off. But My Friend was a Stock Engraver, and on this rifle He inlaid two Silver Conchos on both sides of the Butt Stock and a carved Mountain Lion on left side and a Running Eight point Buck on the right side. Along with a matching Floral Carving on both sides at the base of the Butt Stock. And I really like that sorta stuff especially since My Best Friend carved it. I have shot this Rifle a few times when We went to Cowboy Action Shoots in the past, and it shoot extremely well. And You can bet I will be shooting it a lot more. And You can depend on me thinking about My Friend every time I take the rifle out and shoot it
Thank You very much for letting me be part of Your Forum:
ken.
 
I can certainly understand that to you that rifle will always be priceless, worth far beyond any catalog dollar figure. But objectively, the rifle sounds like the "1873 Sporting Rifle" which was a very well made copy of the Model 1873 Winchester in a number of calibers. Stocks were usually checkered,

The original retail price would have been around $1350; current value could as high as $1000 in 100% condition, ranging down to about $500 in 80%. Now we come to the touchy part. Whether your friend's engraving adds to the value or not depends on its quality, but honestly compels me to say that unless your friend was a "name" engraver, it probably does little to enhance the objective value (and may detract from it) no matter how much it adds to your pleasure in ownership.

Jim
 
Howdy

Navy Arms was founded by a man named Val Forgett II. Val already owned a company called Service Armament Company that he ran from his location in Ridgefield New Jersey. Service Armament dealt in surplus military firearms, and their inventory was pretty amazing. I have one of their old catalogs. It has everything from flintlock rifles in it right up to and including cannons.

In 1959, at the time of the centennial of the Civil War, Val realized there would be a demand for replica firearms from the Civil War era. He entered into a business agreement with Aldo Uberti to begin producing replica firearms from the Civil War. The first firearm they produced was a replica of the Colt 1851 Navy revolver, hence the name Navy Arms. Many models followed, and it can be said without exaggeration that the entire replica firearms business today owes its existence to Val Forgett. Indeed, without Val Forgett and his interest in replica firearms, Cowboy Action Shooting would probably never have happened.

Uberti was the manufacturer, and Navy Arms imported the guns. I grew up not far from Ridgefield NJ, and in 1968 I borrowed my Dad's car and drove down to Ridgefield and bought my first Black Powder firearm from the Navy Arms showroom. A brass framed, 44 caliber replica of the Navy revolver. I still have it today, but because of the brass frame it is only a wall hanger today.

Uberti is located in northern Italy in the town of Gardone V.T., in the province of Brescia. This area of Italy has been a gun making center of centuries. Uberti was bought by Beretta a few years ago, but the guns are still made in the Uberti factory in Gardone.

The Model 1873 Winchester has what is known as a Toggle Link action. This is a very old design going back to the 1860 Henry, and back even further than that to the Volcanic firearms developed by Daniel Wesson and Horace Smith in the early 1850s. Picture the toggle link action of a Luger, except turn it upside down. There are no positive locking lugs in this type of action, The bolt is held at battery when the links are completely extended.

This is a photo of the action of an Uberti replica of the 1873 Winchester. The links are extended and the three pivot points of the links are lined up, holding the bolt in battery.

links%20at%20battery_zps7okmwhvi.jpg



This is a photo of the links folded. The lever has been rotated all the way forward, pulling the middle pivot of the links down and back. The rear pivot is fixed to the frame, and the front link has pulled the bolt all the way back. The firing pin extension has been shoved back and has cocked the hammer. You can also see the lifter arm has tilted up and has raised the brass cartridge carrier. The top of the cartridge carrier is peeking out from the top of the frame. When the lever is rotated back to its normal position, the links will push the bolt forward, and the bolt will strip a fresh cartridge off the cartridge carrier and push it into the chamber. The hammer has been cocked, so the gun is ready to fire the next round.

links%20folded_zpswwbjba4o.jpg




There are no locking lugs in the modern sense in a Toggle Link action. The links merely hold the bolt all the way forward because the pivot points are lined up. In addition, the frame of these rifles is skeletal, there is not a whole lot of metal keeping everything rigid. When the Browning designed Winchester Models 1886 and 1892 came along, they were much stronger because in addition to the frame being solid, there were positive locking lugs that rode up and locked the bolt in place.

Yes, Uberti recently chambered the 1873 Model for 44 Magnum, and they have been proofed in Italy, but I wonder how much punishment the action could take under repeated shooting with full power 44 Magnum ammuntion.

Your Uberti 1873 rifle has been proofed in Italy to standards that are slightly higher than American SAAMI standards. You can safely shoot regular SAAMI spec 45 Colt ammunition in it. However, no 'Ruger Only' loads.
 
Driftwood Johnson: Thanks for the info. I really enjoy reading all Your posts. I have been wondering about the strength of my rifle. And I don`t load Ruger only loads. However my Son and I shoot a lot of 45LC and we have several in both Pistols and Rifles. And I just load one load for our 45LC`s and that is 7grs of WIN 231 and a Hard Cast 255gr LRNFP Bullets. And we used it for most everything, PIG & DEER HUNTING, COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING, STEEL SILHOUETTES, TARGET SHOOTING at the range, and just Walking around Plinking. Is this Load ok to shoot in My new Uberti Rifle. I would really like to have your ((( OPION ))) on this. And the Opinions from any other people here that shoots a 1873 Model Uberti 45LC Rifle like mine. I darn sure don`t want to damage my new Rifle. shooting it with to hot of Ammo. Thanks in advance for all your advice.
ken
 
Howdy Again

Sorry, I have no experience with that powder.

I looked it up in both Lee and Lyman as well as the Hodgdon Powder website.

According to Lee, the MAX load with a 255 grain lead bullet and Win 231 is 7.1 grains.

Lyman does not list a load for 255 grains with 231, but they list a load for a 250 grain lead bullet. Lyman says 7.4 grains is the MAX load with that bullet. Add 5 grains of lead and you will up the pressure a bit.

Hodgdon does not list a load for 255 grains, but they list a load for a 250 grain LRNFP bullet with Win 231. The MAX load they list is 7.1 grains. 5 grains more of lead will up the pressure a little bit.

According to what I see as published data, you are loading right up near the MAX with that load, pardner. I would throttle back a bit for your '73.

Just an educated guess of course because as I said, I have no actual experience with that powder.

In fact, I have no experience at all with 45 Colt in a rifle. All my lever guns are chambered for either 38-40 or 44-40, and I usually only shoot Black Powder out of them. I used to shoot Unique in 44-40 and I always liked to keep my loads down around the middle of the spectrum.
 
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