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45acp bullets
- Thread starter Pat C
- Start date
A plain lead bullet will leave lead deposits in your barrel. To prevent this leading from occurring bullets were cast with a groove which was then filled with lube. The lube acts like an oil or grease and keeps the lead from sticking to the barrel and leaving deposits of lead throughout the barrel. These desposits are bad - they effect accuracy, pressure, and are a pain to clean out. Assuming you have a properly sized and hard bullet using a good lube will prevent leading.
Over the last couple of years a couple new options have become popular that do not require lube. The 2 most popular examples are probably powder coating and Hi-tek coatings. These coatings typically encapsulate the entire bullet like a jacket and serve as a barrier to prevent leading. These new coating options have allowed bullet makers to create bullets without lube grooves.
There are also swaged lead bullets that do not have lube groove, but instead use graphite or other similar coatings to prevent leading in the barrel. These are common in low pressure rounds like 38 special wadcutter loads.
Many coated bullets come in the traditional bullet style and have lube grooves even though the lube groove is not filled with lube. There is nothing wrong with using a design intended for lube but has a coating instead. I have seen some coated bullets for revolvers that have no grooves or cannelures which I dislike because this makes crimping harder.
Hopefully this answers some of your questions.... I prefer coated bullets because they do a better job of preventing leading vs lubed bullets. I prefer the traditional bullet designs that include lube grooves. Most of these designs are tested and proven accurate and have more load data available. I can't recall ever seeing load data for lead bullets without lube grooves. I'm sure some is out there and more will come in time.
Over the last couple of years a couple new options have become popular that do not require lube. The 2 most popular examples are probably powder coating and Hi-tek coatings. These coatings typically encapsulate the entire bullet like a jacket and serve as a barrier to prevent leading. These new coating options have allowed bullet makers to create bullets without lube grooves.
There are also swaged lead bullets that do not have lube groove, but instead use graphite or other similar coatings to prevent leading in the barrel. These are common in low pressure rounds like 38 special wadcutter loads.
Many coated bullets come in the traditional bullet style and have lube grooves even though the lube groove is not filled with lube. There is nothing wrong with using a design intended for lube but has a coating instead. I have seen some coated bullets for revolvers that have no grooves or cannelures which I dislike because this makes crimping harder.
Hopefully this answers some of your questions.... I prefer coated bullets because they do a better job of preventing leading vs lubed bullets. I prefer the traditional bullet designs that include lube grooves. Most of these designs are tested and proven accurate and have more load data available. I can't recall ever seeing load data for lead bullets without lube grooves. I'm sure some is out there and more will come in time.
In 45ACP, except for uses in which the target is living and needs to be stopped, I prefer coated or plated bullets. With the lower pressures, they obturate better than jacketed, but are cleaner and less smoky than lead.
There are a lot of good, inexpensive choices out there for coated and plate bullets.
There are a lot of good, inexpensive choices out there for coated and plate bullets.
I guess I'm a maverick. I shoot lead bullets almost exclusively. IMHO, jacketed bullets are for "carrying" although I'd feel confident with lead. I'll shoot 230 grain rn when I can get them but I really like 200 grain swc. Have to admit, though, that the 185 and 190 grain WC & SWC really do shoot.
condor bravo
New member
When checking for .45 acp bullets there may be .45 Colt bullets along with the acp's. The cast .45 Colt bullets will have a crimp groove (the topmost groove) along with one or two lube grooves, bullets generally heavier, and not intended for acp use. You may also come across acp bullets with gas checks on the base of the bullets but gas checks will not be necessary.
To emphasize one of the advantages of coated acp's, like Hi-Tek coating, smoking is practically eliminated from what you get from most standard bullet wax lubricants. This can be of consideration at indoor ranges.
To emphasize one of the advantages of coated acp's, like Hi-Tek coating, smoking is practically eliminated from what you get from most standard bullet wax lubricants. This can be of consideration at indoor ranges.
I have been using poly coated bullets for about 8 years. I am very happy with the results as they are running cleaner and there is no smoke compared to lubed lead loads. The shape of your bullet will also make a difference. HP and SWC are the two profiles that work best for my 45. The RN works the worst for accuracy.
disseminator
New member
If your gun will feed them, I like the 200 grain SWC hard cast. My SIG feeds them great, my Dad's XD not so much.
I suggest plated for more choices, less smoke, and cause I want to.
I suggest plated for more choices, less smoke, and cause I want to.
Good post reddog81.
Pat C, what is your loading purpose(s)? Meaning, what kind of ammo are you making? Target? Basic range shooters? High-recoil practice? Defense? I know you're just asking a general question, so it's not critical. But a little more info would be good, just the same.
I'm a revolver guy. But I load/shoot more 45 ACP through three different 1911's than any other semi-auto - by far.
For me, I just buy bullets for purpose. I mostly load 200gn LSWC's. They are lead and have a lube groove. Then, everything else is 230's. Plated HP's with no groove for somewhat hot loadings, and jacketed HP's for full throttle ammo. I used to load 200gn PFP's, but I found them prone to cycling issues.
I don't care for coated bullets. Coated bullets exist primarily to reduce leading. For me and my 1911's, barrel leading is not really an issue with uncoated lead bullets, loaded to target velocities. And in other calibers (38/44 Special) they lead the barrel worse than non-coated lead (go figure). So coated bullets are pointless to me. Plus, they stink when shooting. They smell like burning electrical insulation and it's disgusting. Shoot only with the wind to your back.
After 30 years of loading 45 ACP, I've just kind of settled into three basic rounds: 200gn LSWC's for target; 230 plated HP's (X-treme) for spunky range shooters; and 230 JHP's for full-throttle ammo. I've loaded more 200gn LSWC's w/ 5.0gn W231 than any other load recipe - been loading 'em since 1985.
Pat C, what is your loading purpose(s)? Meaning, what kind of ammo are you making? Target? Basic range shooters? High-recoil practice? Defense? I know you're just asking a general question, so it's not critical. But a little more info would be good, just the same.
I'm a revolver guy. But I load/shoot more 45 ACP through three different 1911's than any other semi-auto - by far.
For me, I just buy bullets for purpose. I mostly load 200gn LSWC's. They are lead and have a lube groove. Then, everything else is 230's. Plated HP's with no groove for somewhat hot loadings, and jacketed HP's for full throttle ammo. I used to load 200gn PFP's, but I found them prone to cycling issues.
I don't care for coated bullets. Coated bullets exist primarily to reduce leading. For me and my 1911's, barrel leading is not really an issue with uncoated lead bullets, loaded to target velocities. And in other calibers (38/44 Special) they lead the barrel worse than non-coated lead (go figure). So coated bullets are pointless to me. Plus, they stink when shooting. They smell like burning electrical insulation and it's disgusting. Shoot only with the wind to your back.
After 30 years of loading 45 ACP, I've just kind of settled into three basic rounds: 200gn LSWC's for target; 230 plated HP's (X-treme) for spunky range shooters; and 230 JHP's for full-throttle ammo. I've loaded more 200gn LSWC's w/ 5.0gn W231 than any other load recipe - been loading 'em since 1985.
200 grain SWC are pretty accurate bullets. I prefer coated for the reasons listed above. Lately I've been using bullets from SNS Casting. Their bullets are now red Hi-Tek coated.
You don't need the grooves if you're not using lube. They won't affect your accuracy, though, if you have them.
There are a number of bullet companies that use the Hi-Tek coating, SNS is pretty close to me so they're convenient. They're also pretty well thought of from what I hear on the Net.
Missouri Bullet Company is another excellent choice. They also use Hi-Tek coating if you desire that.
You don't need the grooves if you're not using lube. They won't affect your accuracy, though, if you have them.
There are a number of bullet companies that use the Hi-Tek coating, SNS is pretty close to me so they're convenient. They're also pretty well thought of from what I hear on the Net.
Missouri Bullet Company is another excellent choice. They also use Hi-Tek coating if you desire that.
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200 grain SWC are pretty accurate bullets. I prefer coated for the reasons listed above. Lately I've been using bullets from SNS Casting. Their bullets are now red Hi-Tek coated.
You don't need the grooves if you're not using lube. They won't affect your accuracy, though, if you have them.
There are a number of bullet companies that use the Hi-Tek coating, SNS is pretty close to me so they're convenient. They're also pretty well though of from what I hear on the Net.
Missouri Bullet Company is another excellent choice. They also use Hi-Tek coating if you desire that.
PoiDog is online now Report Post
I'm familiar with SNS castings, If you go to their web-site you will see red coated non grooved swc and a gold coated grooved swc.both 200gr.
You don't need the grooves if you're not using lube. They won't affect your accuracy, though, if you have them.
There are a number of bullet companies that use the Hi-Tek coating, SNS is pretty close to me so they're convenient. They're also pretty well though of from what I hear on the Net.
Missouri Bullet Company is another excellent choice. They also use Hi-Tek coating if you desire that.
PoiDog is online now Report Post
I'm familiar with SNS castings, If you go to their web-site you will see red coated non grooved swc and a gold coated grooved swc.both 200gr.
If you're going to purchase lead bullets, they will be lubed. Either in the "traditional" manner with a wax based lube in a groove, or a dry lube covering the entire surface as used on swaged bullets. All commercially produced lead bullets will have grooves in it (with the exception of swaged); a lube groove and a crimping groove at least. I doubt if you can find non lubed or non grooved lead bullets (coated bullets are different).
If you plan on shooting cast lead bullets a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a very good place to start. It's devoted mainly to casting but there is tons of general lead bullet information. Also look here for lead bullet info...http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
If you plan on shooting cast lead bullets a Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a very good place to start. It's devoted mainly to casting but there is tons of general lead bullet information. Also look here for lead bullet info...http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Contents.htm
I came across coated 45acp bullets which were 200gr swc from different manufacturers that were grooved and some were not grooved
When bullet coating first became a thing, the manufacturers were simply coating their lead bullet offerings; and those castings had lube grooves.
I don't know the full background story, but now that coated bullets are popular, they're using castings without the lube groove (since it's not needed for coated). So that's why some coated bullets are grooved, and some are not. It's not a performance thing. Some are made with the old castings designed for uncoated lead, and some are made with new castings, dedicated for coated bullets.
I'm curious why you're gravitating toward coated bullets? You can't beat straight lead for accuracy.
If you're going to purchase lead bullets, they will be lubed. Either in the "traditional" manner with a wax based lube in a groove, or a dry lube covering the entire surface as used on swaged bullets. All commercially produced lead bullets will have grooves in it (with the exception of swaged); a lube groove and a crimping groove at least. I doubt if you can find non lubed or non grooved lead bullets (coated bullets are different).
Lead bullets for semi-auto calibers don't have a crimping groove since these calibers use a taper crimp.
All cast bullets used to have lube grooves.
All swaged bullets have no lube grooves, though some have a cannelure or two to hold some additional wax emulsion.
Precision Bullets makes swaged and coated lead bullets. These are fantastic. Many folks started demanding that the coated CAST bullet suppliers ALSO offer bullets without lube grooves, as coated bullets don't need the lube groove and many have so suppled bullets.
I see no gain—in terms of accuracy for lead bullets, I find:
1) swaged
2) swaged and coated
3) traditional cast
4) coated cast.
For .45 Auto, my favorite bullets are Zero 200gn swaged L-SWC, Precision Delta's 200gn swaged L-SWC, and Precision Bullets 200gn swaged and coated L-SWC.
Do not order bullets harder than about 13 BHN.
If you purchase lead bullets, they are already lubed.
You should slug your barrel and order bullets that are at least 0.001" larger than actual groove diameter.
I have specifically ordered as-cast non-lubed bullets before and each manufacturer was happy to supply them.
I found back in the '70s that my cast bullets were more accurate if I did NOT size them, so I retired the Lubri-Sizer. When I needed bullets about 15 years ago and couldn't cast my own, I ordered them as-cast and saved some money and gave them the same tumble lube in LLA I use for my own bullets and they worked perfect.
>Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself
Politicians don't want to actually solve any problem—we wouldn't need them if they couldn't convince us that only they can solve the problems. Best for re-election is to be shown "doing something" that appeals to the emotions of their voters and kick the problem down the street. Problems only get "solved" by technology or death.
All swaged bullets have no lube grooves, though some have a cannelure or two to hold some additional wax emulsion.
Precision Bullets makes swaged and coated lead bullets. These are fantastic. Many folks started demanding that the coated CAST bullet suppliers ALSO offer bullets without lube grooves, as coated bullets don't need the lube groove and many have so suppled bullets.
I see no gain—in terms of accuracy for lead bullets, I find:
1) swaged
2) swaged and coated
3) traditional cast
4) coated cast.
For .45 Auto, my favorite bullets are Zero 200gn swaged L-SWC, Precision Delta's 200gn swaged L-SWC, and Precision Bullets 200gn swaged and coated L-SWC.
Do not order bullets harder than about 13 BHN.
If you purchase lead bullets, they are already lubed.
You should slug your barrel and order bullets that are at least 0.001" larger than actual groove diameter.
I have specifically ordered as-cast non-lubed bullets before and each manufacturer was happy to supply them.
I found back in the '70s that my cast bullets were more accurate if I did NOT size them, so I retired the Lubri-Sizer. When I needed bullets about 15 years ago and couldn't cast my own, I ordered them as-cast and saved some money and gave them the same tumble lube in LLA I use for my own bullets and they worked perfect.
>Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself
Politicians don't want to actually solve any problem—we wouldn't need them if they couldn't convince us that only they can solve the problems. Best for re-election is to be shown "doing something" that appeals to the emotions of their voters and kick the problem down the street. Problems only get "solved" by technology or death.
A long time ago I shot a LOT of Hornady .45 ACP bullets very similar to these, (for all I know these were actually the ones).
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-200-gr-SWC/
Loaded them up with minimum Bullseye loads, just enough to reliably work the action of my 1911 type pistol and that load was very accurate. No leading to speak of but Bullseye is not at all a clean burning powder so the gun got dirty but I always figured cleaning the gun was part of the deal.
http://www.hornady.com/store/45-Cal-.452-200-gr-SWC/
Loaded them up with minimum Bullseye loads, just enough to reliably work the action of my 1911 type pistol and that load was very accurate. No leading to speak of but Bullseye is not at all a clean burning powder so the gun got dirty but I always figured cleaning the gun was part of the deal.
mikld wrote:
If you're going to purchase lead bullets, they will be lubed. Either in the "traditional" manner with a wax based lube in a groove, or a dry lube covering the entire surface as used on swaged bullets.
Decades ago when I inherited by grandfather's 1911, I didn't know about the distinction between "traditional" cast and lubed bullets and the swaged ones with dry lubricant. I first got some swaged bullets that worked real well so I ordered what I thought were some more. But they turned out to be traditional cast bullets. In the July heat, the lubricant was more like Crisco than wax. It's a lesson learned the hard way. I appreciate your post since it will keep people from making the same mistake I did.
sawdustdad
New member
I shoot a lot of Hi Tek coated bullets (.38spl, 9mm and .45 Colt) and do not notice the smell that Nick_CS mentions. It could be there, but I've never smelled it. Or was able to differentiate it from the burnt powder fumes.
I just got my first .45acp pistol, hence reason for reading this thread. I've got lots of .45 Colt bullets, including some 160g, 180g, and 200g. Was planning to load some of the 200g for a first test. They are all RNFP Hi Tek coated from Missouri Bullet Co.
Have lots of different powders to chose from, but will probably follow Nick's lead and try W231/HP38 first.
It's an KAHR Auto Ordnance, BTW. Nothing special, for a first foray into .45acp territory. Already have the dies for one of my Square Deal presses.
Oh, I like that coated bullets don't muck up the bullet seating and crimping dies like lubed bullets. One more thing not to worry about.
I just got my first .45acp pistol, hence reason for reading this thread. I've got lots of .45 Colt bullets, including some 160g, 180g, and 200g. Was planning to load some of the 200g for a first test. They are all RNFP Hi Tek coated from Missouri Bullet Co.
Have lots of different powders to chose from, but will probably follow Nick's lead and try W231/HP38 first.
It's an KAHR Auto Ordnance, BTW. Nothing special, for a first foray into .45acp territory. Already have the dies for one of my Square Deal presses.
Oh, I like that coated bullets don't muck up the bullet seating and crimping dies like lubed bullets. One more thing not to worry about.