.45ACP & .454 Casull - can I use the same bullet

T

terrybarb3

New member
I've been reloading .45 ACP for years with great success. I just purchased a super redhawk in .454 casull and am wondering what difference the .451 and .452 listings have?

I first and foremost want to reload safely. What I would like to do is use the large amount of bullets I have for reloading my .45ACP in my Casull... but don't know what ramifications that will have.

Does anyone have knowledge they would share please?
 
They may or may not shoot as accurrately. I use .45 acp 185gr SWC as cheap light plinking bullets. I've loaded both in JHP for mine, with no complaints at in pistol range distances. A HUGE no-no is trying to load 45 acp bullets to 454 Casull velocities, and for that matter a lot of .45LC bullets. When loading to Casull velocities, it is extremely important to use great care in using only bullets designed for those kinds of pressures and velocities.
 
my Ruger Alaskan in 454 Casull is the 1st & only revolver I've ever had jump crimp with factory bullets... ( & those bullets had crimp grooves ) that would be my 1st concern... depending on the revolver & the charge, you may be fine, but more than likely they'll jump crimp with mid level l,oads from the 454 Casull load recipes...
 
You can, but I would not push them any faster than powder puff. Without a cannelure and a firm roll crimp, you may experience bullet jump under recoil along with poor and inconsistent ignition of the slow powders used for legitimate .454 loads. Also the thin jackets on bullets untended for use in .45ACP may separate on contact with the forcing cone when used at legitimate .454 pressures or may lead to excessive premature forcing cone erosion. Those same thin jackets will lead to poor terminal performance on anything other than paper when used at legitimate .454 velocities also.
 
Hornadys .452 diameter bullets are made specifically for the .454 and .460mag to withstand the pressures and velocities. As for using .451 bullets you will be fine if you keep the velocities down to around 1000fps but then again what fun would that be.
 
Measure your cylinders' chambers' throats, our forcing cone and your barrel diameter (in other words, slug your bore).

Once you know those dimensions, you have the information to get your answer.

The relationships (as I understand it) for lead bullets are:

The chamber throats, if the same size or slightly smaller than your bullet diameter will swage bullets down. As they emerge from the throat and enter the forcing cone, they may upset (due to the pressure) to a little bit larger diameter. As the bullets engage the rifling, it is important that the bullet diameter completely fill the bore. Barrel erosion and leading may occur if the bullet does not fill and seal the bore, as the hot gasses going past the side of the bullet melt the lead and may erode the barrel.

With jacketed bullets, the relationships are similar, but I don't completely understand it yet.

What has been said earlier in this thread is true, too. You don't want to drive a bullet harder than it can stand without coming apart. Rifle shooters have sometimes been able to push bullets so hard that they disintegrate in the air a short distance from the muzzle (usually from centrifugal force). Stripping the plating from a plated bullet or blowing the core out of it may well leave a partial barrel obstruction. So, NEVER drive a bullet faster than it was designed to go, even if the gun can stand the pressure, the bullet may not.

So, slug your bore and your throats. With modern guns (few manufacturers are producing .454" barrels because they know 45ACP conversions are popular for many 45 Colt-chambered revolvers) often sporting .451" barrels you are likely just fine. But it is best to be sure.

Good luck and thanks for asking our advice.

Lost Sheep

Note: I am no gunsmith.
 
If you can locate a newer edition of the Speer loading manual you will find some lower velocity load data for the 45-270-SAA bullet on the last page of the 454 loads. It has several powders which can be used for loads with the 454 cases.

Or if you have access to some 45 Colt cases, you can use loads listed for it with them instead.
 
terrybarb3 said:
I've been reloading .45 ACP for years with great success. I just purchased a super redhawk in .454 casull and am wondering what difference the .451 and .452 listings have?

I first and foremost want to reload safely. What I would like to do is use the large amount of bullets I have for reloading my .45ACP in my Casull... but don't know what ramifications that will have.
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Definitely not a good idea shooting .45 acp projectiles at full 1800+ fps .454 Casull velocities. I don't load 454 , but I do load it's "big brother" the .460 S&W mag and I was schooled on only using the heavy jacketed "magnum specific" bullets or gas check hard cast lead bullets specifically designed for 1600+ fps for use the big magnums. I was schooled by a veteran 45 cal magnum handloader that when you push standard jacketed bullets to higher velocities it's possible for the jacket to be stripped off the core from excessive velocities. I occasionally load up very mild "cowboy loads" for my 460 using 250gr SWC hard cast bullets but I only push them to about 1200 fps.

These Cast Performance hard cast gas check bullets can handle magnum velocities as well :

http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=cp45cal

Hornady makes the 45 cal "XTP Mag" specific for higher velocity bullets that have an extra thick jacket so you can run them to 2000+ FPS . The Hornady 200 FTX is also a magnum specific bullet.

So if it were me, just load up your .45 acp bullets but keep the velocity under 1300 fps
 
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Hornadys .452 diameter bullets are made specifically for the .454 and .460mag to withstand the pressures and velocities.
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They also make a lot of .452 bullets that are NOT suitable. You need to use care in selecting their MAG bullets. The danger is not just in the bullet coming apart upon firing, but soft cored bullets at high pressure expand more and accelerate forcing cone wear.
 
Excellent feedback gentleman. Thank you for your input. Sounds like I basically shouldn't screw around worrying about trying to save a couple of bucks and need to find the right magnum rated .452 bullets
 
terrybarb3 said:
I basically shouldn't screw around worrying about trying to save a couple of bucks and need to find the right magnum rated .452 bullets
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It just depends on exactly what you want to do. You can use your current ACP bullets you will just need to load a very light charge of something like Trail Boss at about 11gr's . A chronograph would be a huge help in tracking velocities. My 250gr SWC load is about 12.5gr of WST powder and it right around 1200 fps. If you want to go for full velocities I advise using the Hornady 240 or 300gr XTP Mag bullets.
 
They work perfectly fine as long as you're not shooting them at 454 Casull velocities! I've loaded up quite a few 230gr FMJ and my 45 Colt/454 Ruger SRH Toklat shoots them just fine.

Here's an offhand group from my Toklat SRH using 230gr FMJ (.451"), 9.5gr Unique @ 1.600" (.45 Colt) from about 15yds.

(.40 S&W case for comparison)
Xx1bHzv.jpg


Pretty much all .451" bullets are for .45 ACP velocities, or on the warm end good up to around 1200 fps for JHP's. Some .452" JHP's aren't any tougher, but some are, like Swift or Hornady .452" XTP bullets.

If you're loading up light loads in the 454, .451's will work, otherwise DO NOT use them!
 
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Excellent feedback gentleman. Thank you for your input. Sounds like I basically shouldn't screw around worrying about trying to save a couple of bucks and need to find the right magnum rated .452 bullets
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Hey, I'm all about saving money. Nobody is saying not to load them. Just use 45 LC load data.

If you want to save money on full power loads, you need to go to very hard cast such as the Casull bullets made by Penn Bullets.

XTP-Mag is an excellent choice, and in my opinion , the world's greatest pistol bullet for deer. :D They are a bit expensive for slaying tin cans and sheets of paper though.
 
Keep in mind, my velocity suggestions and data are from experiences shooting through my .460 S&W 12" bbl pistol loading true .460 casings, as always start out very mild (I started out at 9gr of WST when I experimented with the 250gr SWCHC bullets) and work up.
 
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