457 balls

I

Idaho Spud

New member
Am getting a Pietta 1860 Army soon and have a supply of these for an Old Army Ruger. I believe they'll shoot OK, but how about loading them in the 1860? Will the extra 3 thou. be a problem? Don't wanna break the rammer right off the bat. Should have ordered some 454's but I sometimes suffer from Oldtimers and forgot. Wha'cha think? About the larger balls, I mean?


edit: never mind, found my answer.
 
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I think....

In actual practice, you won't know until you try em.

Coupla reasons.

Roundballs - I have measured roundballs from Hornady (for example) and I find that the ball to ball diameter is not that consistent. I can't remember standard deviation of diameter of a sample of 100 balls (I think it was north of .001) but I do recall that it was, a) more than I thought it would be, and b) higher than balls I cast myself when I was being very very careful.

The pistol - I don't know what variation in chamber diameter one might expect from pistol to pistol. Machinery set-up, tool wear, operator in a bad mood, etc.

The lead - Force required to seat the ball (IMO) has a lot to do with hardness of the bullet metal. There are folks out there who shoot cap and ball revolver a heck of a lot more than I do and to them this may be part of shooting dogma. If these are soft bullets, you might not even notice much of a difference. I cast all of my round balls now and never measured hardness on a bought ball, so I don't know.

I don't shoot .457 in anything but ROA, but I would not say it is impossible. In the end, I think you won't know for sure how you feel about it until you see how hard it is to shave lead.
 
I also think....

If you can use the bigger ball, the performance may be better.

I am no expert but my logic is:

- More rifling engagement.

- Higher pressure developed by the additional resistance of the ball against the rifling.

- Bigger ball turns into more of a cylinder as it goes down the bore.

I would fervently invite the ballistics experts to confirm or counter this logic.
 
I agree with Doc.

I now shoot .457 in my Pietta 1858 even though it only needs .454 because my Walker needs .457 and I did not want to cast and keep track of two different size balls.

.457 loads just fine in the Pietta 1858. I'm not sure I can even tell much difference in loading. Of course, I usually load off the gun with an external loading press.

I have not done extensive testing to compare accuracy but the same thoughts occurred to me as they did to Doc.

Steve
 
Thannks, guys, kinda my conclusion, too. Found an old thread concerning this with Hawg and others pretty much saying the same as you. Using Speer balls and they're real soft so I should be OK. My own 457 mold makes nice balls but my alloy's not quite pure, so they come out a smidgen larger and lighter (and probably harder). Gonna stick with the Speers for now.
 
Yes "bigger is better"!
I have shot my.36 Navy with .395 of soft pure lead, I use for a .40 squirrel rifle. Other than having to be careful not to over stress the loading leaver they seemed to be more accurate. Would not do this with a brasser as loading and shooting will both put extra stress on the arbor/frame.
 
I like that.

Like what?

Like that you included Loading as a contributor to the stresses on the frame of a Colt revolver.

My opinion is the loading stress may exceed the firing stress. I don't know that but I do think it.
 
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the big problem will be in the loading.
The extra force needed to both shave and swage the ball into the chamber, will put added stress on the loading ram and screw.

As to better engagement with the rifling. Only because the amount shaved will leave a slightly longer "barrel side" once seated into the chamber and thus minutely engage a slightly longer section of rifling.
But it will not engage any deeper into the rifling than the smaller ball.
In practicality the absolute diameter of the ball will not get any bigger.

Also in practicality the round ball does not experience Obturation per se.

That phenomenon only occurs in a hollow base type bullet.

But what can and sometimes does happen in a properly machined revolver is.
As the ball is forced through the forcing cone, the excess diameter (if any) is rolled and peeled backwards. This excess will form a slight skirt towards the tail end of the ball. Allowing the hot gases to push this thin material out into the grooves..
It doesn't always happen as in some revolvers, the forcing cone and barrel are a bit bigger in diameter than what would be optimum and thus there is no excess to "roll" backward.
 
whatever you do, If you cast your own bullets, dont use wheel weights for cap and ball revolver bullets, they are extremely hard to ram in
 
I use weights

I am able to get bullet metal with BHN under ten consistently.

I am very careful with the sorting process and I measure the hardness a lot. But it seems to work for me.

I also use a press for most of my loading, but not because I have too.

When I was on active duty (Navy) ship in the yards, I came up with a BUNCH of ship ballast ingots. The person who gave them to me told me it was "pure lead". I am a natural skeptic and a student of human nature. I think his definition of "pure" was not the scientific definition. It was the friendly, talking around the wood stove, just between us girls, definition.

I like Gary's solution. I am to much of a tightwad not to.
 
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My advice...

Shoot the 0.454's ONLY!!!

WHY ? ? ? ?

Here in Maine they are 20% to 25% LESS per box than the 0.457's!

That extra "3 Thous" costs us MUCH more than it costs the makers... :eek:

All they're doing is gouging all the ROA shooters............ :confused:

Old No7
 
While the metals in our guns are definitely better then originals of the 1800's,
and probably better than the ones of the 1960's - early 1980's, they still aren't the quality of modern smokeless guns.
WW lead may very well be too hard for them over time and erode the barrel.
So why take the chance?
Use the purest lead you can get.
I buy used lead a lot, but have it scanned and it must be at least 97% pure.
I blend that in with the known pure, when i am getting low on pure.
But I normally keep an extra 20# or so known pure on hand, so that rarely happens.
 
dont use wheel weights for cap and ball revolver bullets, they are extremely hard to ram in
Click to expand...

The clip on weights are too hard but the stick on weights are almost pure lead and plenty soft enough. I use them all the time.
 
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