454 and 460 65K load data

1

1972RedNeck

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I am trying to find max loads for 454 Casull and 460 S&W. Specifically for 240 and 300 gr Hornady XTP mag bullets and H110 powder. All I can find is up to about 56K PSI. I want loads pushing up to 65K PSI.

Where can I find this data? Hornady and Hodgon have been no help. I am rather new to reloading and have no idea how to "work up" a load over published data and no courage to go over published data.

Any suggestions were to find full pressure data?
 
Published data now adays is incredibly conservative, thanks to a litigious society and anxious lawyers.

Max loads are going to be gun and component specific, so learn pressure signs, and know your primers

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The only way you are going to get to MAX 65K Loads is to beg , borrow , rent/lease or buy pressure testing equipment and start pushing that envelope ... I think Dick Casull had to do this when he was developing the 454 Casull .
I don't have a simple answer for you and you might search out a pressure testing lab and see if they would/could test pressures of your ++P++ Loads .
You could do it like Elmer Keith did when working up the new 44 Magnum ...
read about his experiments in his book "Sixguns" ... very interesting !
Gary
 
Elmer was originally looking for a .45 Magnum, but went to the .44 bore due to the limitations of the guns he had to work with.
 
If Hodgdon data doesn’t go to 65k - 5%, I would call them and ask why. Pistol powders are quite temperature sensitive. That may be why.

I wouldn’t just load it hotter. I suspect there is a good reason not to load revolvers to 65k!

What primers are you using?
 
There is some statistical massaging done for SAAMI compliance.
Apparently the manufacturers could not increase the loads to the MAP without one of the other figures of merit being exceeded.

Buffalo Bore is noted for crowding the maximum and even they say:
"The .454 Casull is one cartridge that Buffalo Bore Ammunition does not load to its full pressure limit. When loaded to its full pressure potential the .454 Casull can become unreliable and unpleasant to shoot. upper-pressure levels, heavy bullets tend to jump crimp - tying up the cylinder. (wouldn't this be great in an emergency) Also, fired brass can stick in the chambers."
 
Have you considered that the reason you cannot find published reloading data reaching 65K psi might be because you cannot safely get there with cannister grade reloading powders???

The speedometer on my Ford Focus goes to 140mph. There is no way I can get the car to go that fast with available stock components, I don't even try...:D
 
I did some reading about the cartridge due to this post. The practices of the folks developing loads for this some time are a bit hair raising to my more conservative sensibilities.

I'd never heard of triplex loads before, and it isn't something I would ever think about doing. But, I think that is how the original cartridge was driven to those types of pressures.
 
Secret Sauce Powder strikes again.

I don't know the timeline, when Dick Casul was doing "triplex" loading, was H110 available? Because H110 and W296 have made that sort of kluge unnecessary.
Also AA#9 and likely N110.
 
Jim Watson said:
No, I was reading the gunzines back then, he really did use duplex and triplex charges of Hercules powders.
Click to expand...
And IIRC blew up cylinders and top-straps more than once.

Pretty sure they weren't sharing those duplex and triplex because someone would try them and blow up more guns (and fingers and ...)
 
Buffalo bore or double tap makes loads that will tear your hand off. I only use them for bear protection in AK as they are not fun to shoot in my 454
 
I think you are pushing toward trouble. With no way to actually measure the pressures you will be heading toward a serious accident and when it happens you will not know exactly what went wrong.
Remember Elmer blew up a Colt and was lucky it did not hurt him.
 
Elmer blew up a couple Colts, that he mentions specifically and another one he mentions in passing. Possibly as many as five, but more likely 3. One was a .45 Colt, and he cracked the cylinder on a .38-40, the others he doesn't say, but it was the failures that lead him to using the .44 Special because of the guns available at the time, it had more steel in the cylinder.

Personally I believe that had a gun like the large frame Ruger Super Blackhawk been available at the time, Elmer would have made a .45 Magnum, not a .44.

Buffalo bore or double tap makes loads that will tear your hand off. I only use them for bear protection in AK as they are not fun to shoot in my 454
Click to expand...

I do question the sense of a "rip your hand off" load for bear defense. I mean, if that's what you're going to choose, why bother with a repeater? :rolleyes:

.44 Mag has put down some very big bears, including a 12'6" polar bear, so clearly it can work. Why go so far beyond that as to effectively eliminate the likelihood of more than one aimed shot??

Just as you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight, you can't miss with enough power to stop a charging beast.

If you've got confidence in it, use it. That can count for more than paper statistics.
 
Some of the loads in the Ackley books are downright spooky.
I considered mine to be historical references, not working data.
 
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