.451 vs .452

L

lugerstew

New member
I have about a dozen loads I have worked up for my 1911 and glock 45acp pistols, 230g RN. I have always used either Extreme or Berrys copper plated .451 diameter bullets. I cant get them now or they are twice the price, but at SNS Casting, they have powder coated 230g RN, but they are .452 diameter, and they say I can get .451 diameter on special request.
Would it be dangerous or unwise to just order the .001 larger diameter bullets from them and assume they will shoot well in my 2 guns using my same worked up load data?
 
Yep. That little bit of squeeze-down doesn't hurt anything and the extra diameter ensures you get a good gas seal. If you don't get a good gas seal, the powder coat and perhaps some of the lead can be gas cut at the base which can unbalance the bullet or cause some leading or both.
 
That .001 is 1 third the thickness of a human hair and in better perspective .0005 wider on each side of the bullet
 
Thanks for the advice everyone, i've been using the SNS powder coated bullets for a year or so now with no problems in 357 and 44 mag and I feel that they don't lead up the barrel quite as much, they are a good company with a good product, and it doesn't seem like they are doing any price gouging, which makes me want to give them my business. I'll order 500 of them and see how they shoot, I do cringe a bit on their high shipping prices.
 
You could slug your barrel to see what it measures. The SAAMI specs for the 45 Auto are a groove diameter of 0.450 + .004. That means a groove diameter between 0.450 to 0.454 would be within spec.

I haven't slugged 45 barrels in a long time, but 9mm barrels are seldom at their 0.355 minimum. Their SAAMI spec is 0.355 + 0.004, so they can be up to 0.359 and still be within spec. Of the 9mm barrels I've slugged, only 2 were smaller than 0.356. So even with 0.356 bullets, they were undersized in all the other barrels.
 
Most .45 barrels slug at .451 or .452". I cast/size my .45acp to .452 like Mehavey. The best thing to do is slug your barrel. Maybe can find someone that shoots blackpowder .45 round ball and ask him for a ball for you to have and slug through your barrel, then mic the slug. Dardas use to sell round balls for you to slug in your barrel. Maybe SNS does too.
 
"...1 third the thickness of a human hair..." Depends on what hair and whose.
However, there is no 'vs'. One thou will make no difference, but normally, cast bullets are .452". Jacketed .451". Plated are treated like cast.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Berry's plated bullets in .45 ACP are advertised as .452" in diameter, and every one I have measured (I've been loading them for years) has measured .4515+

https://www.berrysmfg.com/product/bp-45-452-230gr-rn

Buy the .452 bullets.
Click to expand...
I find that a lot of bullets that are advertised as being a certain size are often .0005" smaller, most recent example of this was some .314 Speer wadcutters that measure .3135".

IDK why the bullet makers can't be more specific in their diameters. If I get a bullet advertised as a certain diameter and what I get could be .0005" smaller or .0004" larger, I'd like to know that.
 
Thanks for the idea, I remembered that I had about 500 45 caliber lead round balls that me and my cousin cast about 15 yrs ago, they were for our wrist rocket sling shots, wow they work awesome,. I ran one down the bore with some lube and a wood dowel, but trying to measure the results is a bit of a hassle for me anyway, I get several readings, but with calipers it seems my glock is about .452, I tried using my one inch micrometer, but i couldn't get a good reading, because the flats on the bullet were smaller than the micrometer stems. So I'm so far not sold on slugging my barrel, only because i'm still a rookie at it and
I get way to many results.
 
I believe 0.451" (nominal) is the traditional reloading standard for jacketed 45 ACP bullets, while 0.452" (again, nominal) is the traditional reloading standard for 45 ACP cast bullets.

You won't have to look very far to find exceptions.
 
lugerstew...Using a mic is an acquired skill.

Most folks don't even know how to hold a mic. You put your ring finger through the "C" with the thimble between your thumb and forefinger. That way you can run it one handed. You can hold the lead ball in the other hand.

I'll give you an alternative method.We'll call it "bracketing"

Set you mic on .452 and lock the spindle(if possible) Carefully pass your lead ball between the jaws,rocking it a bit. You will either have free pass through,or drag/interference.

What next? I'll give a couple of examples.I'm sure you'll get it.

If you get interference,open the mic .001. If you have clearance,close it .001.

Do the same drill.

What you want is to establish ?It is MORE than XXX,but LESS than YYY.

Once you know that,cut the "between" in half. Like try .4515 and .452.

If it clears .452,but drags on .4515, you now its between .4516 and .452.

So,if you want to cut in finer,split the difference. Maybe set your mic at 4517.

Bracketing is how artillery fire is adjusted.The Forward Observer can see if the rounds are far or short. The correction is cut in half each time.
Soon its "Close enough"

The ball or bullet can be upsized if necessary by whacking it.
 
Thank HIBC,,I have some knowledge and experience with a 1 inch micrometer, I was a forklift mechanic and utilities operator until I retired 2 months ago, but, yes, I am a rookie for sure with micrometers, I will try what you suggest and read up on it and see if I get some definite readings.
 
I am finally getting good at reading my 0-1 inch micrometer, and I don't know if Glock barrels are bizzare or not, and I have heard of the glock 45 acp having different rifling, but after measuring my slugged barrel, I am getting a reading of right at .443 inch, that is way different than what I was expecting of .451 or .452. I wonder what is going on?, I also get this same reading with my dial calipers, this doesn't make sense, how does the .452 bullet even go down this .443 barrel and not have problems or end up being dangerous?
I haven't gotten to my Ruger 1911 yet to slug and measure the bore diameter on it.
 
The groove diameter (across the corners with polygonal rifling) would normally be 0.451" and the rifling is often about 0.004" tall on both sides, so the bore is 0.451"-2×0.004"=0.443". So that would be the diameter across the rifling marks with conventional rifling and with polygonal rifling, since the bullet gets squeezed a bit, it may well be the dimension across the narrower flats of an even number of sides or possibly across peak-to-flat with an odd number of polygon sides depending on how much distortion they allowed for. But the bottom line is that it is within the range of dimensions that rifling applies to bullets.

I don't own any barrels with polygonal rifling, or I would check real numbers for you. Wikipedia explains conventional vs polygonal rifling here.
 
Thanks so much, Unclenick, I am very new at slugging bores, actually my first time, are you saying if I slugged anything other than a Glock, things would make more sense or be different, or is the basic math applied to slugging of all barrels? That is an interesting formula you gave me, I need to write it down and keep it in a safe place. Do you think, I will see way different numbers from my Ruger 1911, when I finally get around to slugging it?
 
I shoot .452 cast bullets in all my .45s(8 guns), works well in all of them, i have shot some bullets that measured .453, they worked well also. Some are very accurate. .451 may work as well but if it ain't broke don't fix it. Your mileage may vary. Never slugged a 45 ACP bbl.
 
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