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450/400NE ballistics and related .411" cartridges or wildcats
- Thread starter Glamdring
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Cartridges of the World has information on a lot of these cartridges.
If no one else does, I'll post some information when I get home from work this evening.
If no one else does, I'll post some information when I get home from work this evening.
Robert the41MagFan
New member
450/400-3" four hundred grain bullet averages 2150FPS at the muzzle, 1932PFS @ 100 yards, 1730FPS @ 200 yards, 1545 FPS @ 300 yards and 1379 @ 400 yards. Muzzle energy is just over two tons.
416 Dakota 400 grains bullet, 2450FPS
416 Taylor 400 grain bullet, 2350FPS
416 Hoffman 400 grain bullet, 2380FPS
416 Rigby 400 grain bullet, 2370FPS
416 Rem Mag 400 grain bullet, 2400FPS
416 Wea Magnum 400 grain bullet, 2700 FPS
Comparison
458 Win Magnum 400 grain bullet, 2380FPS
450 Marlin 400 grain bullet, 2020FPS (24" test barrel)
450 NE 3-1/4" 465 grain bullet, 2190 FPS
(Gun Digest 1999)
Robert
416 Dakota 400 grains bullet, 2450FPS
416 Taylor 400 grain bullet, 2350FPS
416 Hoffman 400 grain bullet, 2380FPS
416 Rigby 400 grain bullet, 2370FPS
416 Rem Mag 400 grain bullet, 2400FPS
416 Wea Magnum 400 grain bullet, 2700 FPS
Comparison
458 Win Magnum 400 grain bullet, 2380FPS
450 Marlin 400 grain bullet, 2020FPS (24" test barrel)
450 NE 3-1/4" 465 grain bullet, 2190 FPS
(Gun Digest 1999)
Robert
Mike Irwin
Staff
Hum...
I'm not certain where you're getting the figure of .411 for the .450/.400.
According to Cartridges of the World, bullet diameter on that cartridge was .408.
For the .450/.400 Magnum Nitro Express, which used the older, 3.25" cartridge, bullet diameter is listed as .405.
The third .450/.400 cartridge, an older, less powerful round, with a 2 and 3/8" casing, had a bullet diameter of .407.
The only other round from the British family of sporting cartridges with a bullet diameter that is close is the .416 Rigby.
In wildcats, the .400 Whelen uses a .405 dia. bullet, while all the others with bullet diameters close to .411 use the .416 Rigby bullet.
The long-obsolete 10.15 mm Serbian Mauser is actually listed as using a bullet of .411 diameter.
In obsolete American cartridges the .405 Winchester used a .412 bullet, and the .40-cal. Peabody cartridges used .408 caliber bullets.
That's about it for Cartridges of the World.
I'm not certain where you're getting the figure of .411 for the .450/.400.
According to Cartridges of the World, bullet diameter on that cartridge was .408.
For the .450/.400 Magnum Nitro Express, which used the older, 3.25" cartridge, bullet diameter is listed as .405.
The third .450/.400 cartridge, an older, less powerful round, with a 2 and 3/8" casing, had a bullet diameter of .407.
The only other round from the British family of sporting cartridges with a bullet diameter that is close is the .416 Rigby.
In wildcats, the .400 Whelen uses a .405 dia. bullet, while all the others with bullet diameters close to .411 use the .416 Rigby bullet.
The long-obsolete 10.15 mm Serbian Mauser is actually listed as using a bullet of .411 diameter.
In obsolete American cartridges the .405 Winchester used a .412 bullet, and the .40-cal. Peabody cartridges used .408 caliber bullets.
That's about it for Cartridges of the World.
Woodleigh lists 400 grain .411" bullets for the 450/400...ah they also list .408" bullets for the 450/400
Swift also lists 350 & 400 grain bullets in .411"
I didn't see the listing for the .408 bullets from Woodleigh till you mentioned it. I had assumed the Swift bullets were for the 450/400 because I don't know of anything else that is listed with .411"
Hmmm...perhaps there were two versions? My library is sadly lacking for the Nitro Express cartridges at the present. I was trying to figure things out from scattered fragments from several sources.
Swift also lists 350 & 400 grain bullets in .411"
I didn't see the listing for the .408 bullets from Woodleigh till you mentioned it. I had assumed the Swift bullets were for the 450/400 because I don't know of anything else that is listed with .411"
Hmmm...perhaps there were two versions? My library is sadly lacking for the Nitro Express cartridges at the present. I was trying to figure things out from scattered fragments from several sources.
The .411 Hawk is based on the '06 case correct?
One of the reasons I am interested in 411 cartridges is because I would like to own a true heavy rifle, which in my mind would be .40+ caliber.
But for a heavy to get used much it would be nice if there were "weaker" bullets one could use for hunting things less demanding than Nyati. I like the 416 Rem and Rigby but you don't have many options in bullets that are well designed for regular big game.
The 458 Win/Lott & 460 G&A offer some good alternatives because there are some 300 & 400 grain bullets designed for 45-70 velocities that you could use for Deer, Elk, & such.
.411" Heavies would allow you to use .41 pistol bullets for ligth loads.
One of the reasons I am interested in 411 cartridges is because I would like to own a true heavy rifle, which in my mind would be .40+ caliber.
But for a heavy to get used much it would be nice if there were "weaker" bullets one could use for hunting things less demanding than Nyati. I like the 416 Rem and Rigby but you don't have many options in bullets that are well designed for regular big game.
The 458 Win/Lott & 460 G&A offer some good alternatives because there are some 300 & 400 grain bullets designed for 45-70 velocities that you could use for Deer, Elk, & such.
.411" Heavies would allow you to use .41 pistol bullets for ligth loads.
The .411 Hawk is part of the whole Hawk/Scovill family of cartridges which are based on blown out '06 and 9.3x62mm Mauser cases. It offers a very efficient cartridge that will fit any 30'06 length action with few modifications, and easily produce 4000+ftlbs using smaller powder charges than most .40+ cal rifles.
Bullet selection is quite limited in .411, even more so than .416. Hawk, Barnes and a few custom low volume places make .411 Bullets of various configs, and there are cast lead bullets of suitable weight and shapes. The .41 Mag bullets may work for low velocity loads, but few are intended to hold together at the type of velocities that the .411 Hawk or .411 KDF is capable of driving them at.
The .416 bore offers many more choices in terms of bullet selection. Barnes, Swift, Hawk, Kodiak, Nosler, Hornady, Woodleigh offer factory .416's designed to operate in the range of velocities offered by the .416 Rem, Rigby, and Taylor. Cast bullets are also an option for lighter game and practice, although some jacketed bullets will do just fine on game lighter than Cape Buffalo or Kodiak bears. I've seen a Speer SP bullet from a .416 Rigby Ruger #1 pole-axe a deer from ~125 yds. It didn't take 2 steps after being hit. This was from a reduced load (for a Rigby) traveling at velocities easily met by the extremely efficient .416 Taylor (.458 Win Mag necked to .416). I plan on throwing together a Taylor as soon as I find an affordable Mauser action and barrel.
Bullet selection is quite limited in .411, even more so than .416. Hawk, Barnes and a few custom low volume places make .411 Bullets of various configs, and there are cast lead bullets of suitable weight and shapes. The .41 Mag bullets may work for low velocity loads, but few are intended to hold together at the type of velocities that the .411 Hawk or .411 KDF is capable of driving them at.
The .416 bore offers many more choices in terms of bullet selection. Barnes, Swift, Hawk, Kodiak, Nosler, Hornady, Woodleigh offer factory .416's designed to operate in the range of velocities offered by the .416 Rem, Rigby, and Taylor. Cast bullets are also an option for lighter game and practice, although some jacketed bullets will do just fine on game lighter than Cape Buffalo or Kodiak bears. I've seen a Speer SP bullet from a .416 Rigby Ruger #1 pole-axe a deer from ~125 yds. It didn't take 2 steps after being hit. This was from a reduced load (for a Rigby) traveling at velocities easily met by the extremely efficient .416 Taylor (.458 Win Mag necked to .416). I plan on throwing together a Taylor as soon as I find an affordable Mauser action and barrel.