45 Win Mag in Ruger Redhawk with moonclips

B

brianbelanger

New member
Your opinions would be most appreciated:
Purpose: quick reloads in USPSA/IPSC (Major PF) , IDPA (6 shot limit) and ICORE (6 shot limit) revolver divisons.
Problem: 45 ACP Round nose 230grain ammo in TC moon clips is slow to feed regardless of chamfering.

Potential solution: Spire point bullets appear faster to feed into cylinders but spire points may be too long for 45 ACP brass. 45 Colt needs speed loaders (way too slow) but (longer) 45 Win Mag can use starline moon clips. Heavy and slow bullets appear favorites in USPSA revolver.
I will start reloading with Lee Dies in 45 Win Mag for my Ruger Redhawk (6 shot model 5032 in 45ACP/COLT), using: 45 Winchester Magnum starline Brass, NOE Spirepoint 260 grain mold bullets, federal large pistol primers, and TC moonclips.

What do you guys think?
Thanks
Brian

Ps: I already have a S&W 929 (6.5 inch) and 610 (6 inch) which are great. This 4.2 inch Redhawk is a hoot!
 
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Will the revolver chamber 45 Win Mag?

Why do you think SP bullets will be too long in 45 ACP bras? If the frame window is big enough for 45 Colt brass any SP bullet of appropriate weight for 45 ACP should fit I’d think.

Any round nose bullet will feed just as good as the spire point bullet.
 
Strange, my M25 takes clipped ACP RN very easily.
What is different about the Ruger?
Why do you think it would load (and unload) faster with a longer round?
 
Good Luck.

I don't play speed games, so I don't know how well it would work. With the working of the brass, from .473" to .480"+ and back every reloading cycle I don't know how long your .45 Win Mag cases will last.
 
The Mag won't chamber in an ACP. 300 thou too long. The Mag's case is over an inch long vs the .898" of the ACP. None of it has anything to do with the shape of the bullet.
"...45 ACP Round nose...too slow..." Try a 230 grain Flat Point. Think HP without the hole. Feed like hot dam in a pistol. However, making some ACP DP rounds and practicing would work too. Probably better.
 
Wrong again, T. The OP has the .45 Colt with clip cuts to accommodate .45 ACP. Plenty of chamber depth for Win Mag, although I do not see it as an advantage.
 
That NOE mould casts a very interesting design...at 266 grains it will be a hard hitter.
That spire point might be just the ticket to fast full moon clip reloads .
I would have to try it...I have a sneaking suspicion it just might be a winner!


Gary
 
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You might also consider a bullet you can roll crimp into a crimping groove or cannelure. That would likely might improve loading speed as well. With the use of the moon clips, a taper crimp is no longer needed for headspacing. Then it becomes a matter of whether the chosen bullet will fit into the 45 Automatic case without bulging and achieve the power level you need. If not, that is where the Win. Mag. case enters the picture as originally suggested.
 
Redhawk 45 Spire point cast bullet: Calculations and two questions

Thank you everyone for your great insights. You have given me a lot to think about. I have already bought the Spire Point moulds from NOE and have lots of 1 time shot 45 acp brass; I’d consider 45 Win Mag now as a back up if the spire point cast bullet can’t stay firmly seated. Here are some of my calculations along with two questions.

#1 Question: Pistols have feed ramps, revolvers do not. Could a spire point bullet in a revolver (+moonclip) mimic a feed ramp and therefore feed faster, with fewer hang ups than a round nose or truncated cone bullet?

#2 Question: Can a .0.825 inch bullet effectively stay in a case with only 0.191 (23%) in the case? It is normally 0.191/0.568 = 33.6% in the case. If not a 45 Winchester Magnum case may be necessary? : 0.300 inches longer than 45 ACP

Thank you again for your support.
Google Drive links for 45 acp seating and crimp calculations

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PaF1YbRaCbn-Nrot5rg4qEP4MI2efZ_7/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MNFBlt-gHvhHlrLKY_svRqHAkjce8CQk/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SW8R2D9knFQca0UkXjPfdtbUvjh64-WP/view?usp=drivesdk

Cheers
Brian
 
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A spire point might feed slightly better. A round nose bullet should just drop in with minimal effort. I doubt they’ll be much difference between the 2.

The 230 grain spire point would work a lot better with 45 ACP. The 260 grain bullet will probably stay in the case just fine but is really meant for .45 Colt, .454 Casuall or 460 S&W. The problem with the spire point bullet is that the nose is very small and the bearing surface is very long. Even the data for the 230 grain SP bullet would need to be adjusted downward from regular 230 grain bullet data. I have no idea where data for the 260 bullet is going to come from.
 
T. Oheir’s comment:

Yes you are right. That is true fore the S&W in 45acp. My revolver is The newish Ruger Redhawk model 5032 which comes available in 45acp ( moonclipd) and 45 Colt ( rimmed therefore would use speedloaders)
Please see the links to calculations in this thread? Thank you
 
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I’m sure the 260 grain bullet can be fired and work in the .45 ACP case in that gun but it’s a question of how well it would work. It seems like it’d be much easier to just use .45 Colt brass and use the appropriate load data.

I’d think finding the appropriate load data for that combination would be problematic.
 
Responses

Hi everyone,great feedback; here are some responses:

Red dog 81:
Great to hear you think “the 266 should stay in the case just fine”. That is my hope also. My goal is to reach 170 power-factor using heavy bullets and fast powder which I believe may minimize recoil.
“RN should drop in with minimal effort” yes, perhaps I should increase my chamfer? My concern is interfering with the tolerances of the moon clip ejector?
Load data from Hodgson, Hornady and Speer (1979)

BBarn:
Yes 100% agree. Thank you for the roll crimp idea!

GWPercle:
Yes. My goal is 170 power factor.

44AMP:
This is a valid concern, I have no answer. I will experiment with 45 WIN MAG this summer, after the Canadian snow melts (about June). The 0.473 to 0.480 expansion and contraction may also effect case extraction?

A World’s First?
This Ruger Redhawk model 5032 in 45ACP/Colt may be the first production firearm since the 1980’s to accommodate the 45 Winchester Magnum case? It appears to be the first revolver ever?

Heavy Hitter for Hunting with fast reloads using Moon Clips?
Please consider: Quick reloads with big bore hunting revolvers need speed loaders. Moon clips are significantly faster than speed-loaders. 45 Win Mag cases accept moon clips. Maximum CUP specs: 45 Colt= 14,000, 45 ACP= 19,900, 45 Winchester Magnum= 40,000 and 454 Casull= 55,000.
It may be possible this Redhawk could accommodate Hunting big animals, plinking, ICORE, and USPSA/IPSC; all depending on your ammo?

Cheers
Brian
 
There are frequent searches for .45 ACP 250-255 gr loads.
One of the old time NRA contributors said it would be hard on a 1911, but how will a revolver know or care?
 
OK, lets be clear. Are you thinking of using .45WinMag BRASS but not .45Win Mag loads?? Sounds like you're thinking of using the brass for its extra length aiding in holding heavy bullets and guiding them into the chambers, not using Win Mag loads in your gun.

You noted the pressures, and .45Win Mag is over double .45acp. Now even if There is a Redhawk made in .454 (able to take even higher pressures) it does NOT mean your gun in .45 Colt/.45ACP will.

There could be differences in the heat treat of the cylinder, you should contact Ruger's experts IF you plan to try to use the 40,000psi .45WinMag loads, BEFORE shooting any.

As far as the difference between the nominal .473" diameter of the Winmag round and the .480" diameter of the .45 Colt, it shouldn't make much if any difference in extraction, IF the loads are not "overpressure". What I was thinking about was how much the .007"+ expansion and resizing, expansions and resizing could shorten case life.

Personally, I don't think you are going to realize any real benefit from spire point bullets. The difference between them and the "pointed" shape of regular RN type bullets isn't much, and RNs slip in pretty easy if you're lined up with the chambers at all. I could be wrong, but I don't think you'll find spire points to be noticeably better at that.

Good Luck.
 
Lol, Jerry Miculek never had a hard time speed loading 45acp moon clipped ammo. I would say more practice/training is in order to work on your muscle memory and speed.
 
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