45 Super Round

T

TwoSeventy

Inactive
Just bought a brand new Glock 21SF and I am converting this little lady over too a 45 Super.
Any information on this Handgun cartridge for reloading would be of great help.
Is the round diameter it uses a 451. or a 452. for one thing ? I know I can get my brass through Starline so far.

We,ll that,s about it. Anything you can help me with here on reload data ect. would be appreciated.

Tks. TwoSeventy now own,s a 300 Winchester Magnum. Chipmunk,s bother me when deer hunting.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Sounds like you need a 300WM / .17 HMR over/under.

I think a lot of what you want to know about .45 Super except load data is in, believe it or not, the Wikipedia.

It is basically identical to .45 Auto but tweaked to withstand 28,000 psi. This is done by thickening the brass on the inside to reinforce the head, and by restricting the round to use in barrels that supply full case support. A stiffer recoil spring is also used with them in that pistol. For your Glock, you will probably want to look at an aftermarket barrel with good case support. I know Storm Lake makes some. I would call and ask them or another barrel maker about the barrel choice. The outside dimensions match the standard .45 Auto round and, as already mentioned, it uses the same bullets.

As far as the loads go, it should withstand charges about 9% higher than 45 Auto +P loads. It varies by powder, but QuickLOAD is a good way to tell the percentage-wise change. It was 10% with Bullseye and 8.9% with Power Pistol in the loads I tried.
 
It'll send hardball out of a 5" tube at 1100 fps, carrying over 600 ft-lbs of energy. Compare that to around 830 fps and 350 ft-lbs from standard hardball. It's more energy than most 357 Magnum loads.

Finding bullets? Anything the 45 Auto will shoot, the 45 Super will shoot. Some bullets designed to expand at 45 Auto velocities may be going too fast to avoid fragmenting, but you check with the bullet maker on that.
 
While I think the idea has some merit,if it depends on fully supporting ramped barrels,I have reservations .
I like ramped barrels in 38 Super.But 45? There may be an issue.
The top edge of the mag lips is the same,38 Super vs 45. The center axis of the cartridge is about .050 lower...maybe more.Then the typical meplat/hollow point of the 45 is larger.

So,working downward from the feed lips to the lower edge of the meplat,a ramped 45 bbl may have troubles with the meplat snagging the ramp.

I'm not saying it can't/won't work,but be aware you may be tweaking mag lips,etc.
 
HiBC said:
While I think the idea has some merit,if it depends on fully supporting ramped barrels,I have reservations .
I like ramped barrels in 38 Super.But 45? There may be an issue.
The top edge of the mag lips is the same,38 Super vs 45. The center axis of the cartridge is about .050 lower...maybe more.Then the typical meplat/hollow point of the 45 is larger.

So,working downward from the feed lips to the lower edge of the meplat,a ramped 45 bbl may have troubles with the meplat snagging the ramp.

I'm not saying it can't/won't work,but be aware you may be tweaking mag lips,etc.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Had no idea that 45s with ramped barrels won't run. That will come as a big surprise to many owners.
 
If you want to jack up those Glock 21 numbers--at least take a look at 460 Rowland
before you commit to 45 Super.
 
What 74A95 said:
Hmm. Had no idea that 45s with ramped barrels won't run. That will come as a big surprise to many owners.
Click to expand...

What I said:

I'm not saying it can't/won't work, but be aware you may be tweaking mag lips, etc.
Click to expand...

It just might be I was sharing what I learned from a conversation with Mr. Clark after I built a ramped .460 Rowland with his kit and was working out some issues.

There are ramped 45s that run. The window of operation is smaller. They may run less reliably with some bullets and magazines.
 
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I don't know about the issues in 45 Auto. Brownells sure sold a blue million integral ramp barrels back when customized 1911's were the big thing in gunsmithing. All claims were improved reliability. I just never warmed up to having to mill out my receiver and stayed traditional.

I don't know how high you can load 45 Super for firing in an unsupported chamber. The heaver brass should handle some addition and certainly, make +P loads less prone to creating pregnant cases. I just don't know how far you can take it.
 
"...brass through Starline..." It appears that Starline is your only option for brass. I'd be inclined to buy as much brass as money allows too. $242.91 per 1,000 at Graf's.
You may want to rummage around here. There's a how-to for converting a 21 and load data etc.
http://www.45super.com/
 
Honestly the need for 45 super brass is only needed to shoot 45 super in a stock g21 barrel. The case support of the factory g21 is a joke. I tested standard 45 acp brass in my non ramped sr1911and loaded all the way up to 460 rowland book loads and there wasnt even a hint of bulge. I have a comped g21 thats similar to a rowland conversion but in 45 acp. It has case support to the extractor groove and ive loaded 315gr bullets to almost 1200fps in acp brass. Acp brass is plenty strong for anything thats sane.
 
.45 Super does not require a supported-chamber barrel.
I got 230 grain bullets up to 1175 avg, 1189 peak, out of a 6" 1911, with zero pressure signs and 6'-8' ejection.
My loads were below some published data which gets similar velocities from 5".

.451 or .452, no matter.
I was using plated bullets.

I also did some weighing of water capacity, and found no evidence that Starline Super brass is thicker than .45 ACP; it might be thicker than SOME .45 ACP brass, but it holds no less water than some .45 ACP and +P brass.

I did outrun an 8rd 1911 mag as I got close to the hottest load, but that shouldn't have been a surprise, as 8rd mags often have weaker springs to help accommodate the extra round.
My "Super Mag", no patent pending, is an 8rd mag with a 10rd mag spring, resulting in a 7-rounder that can keep up with the increased slide velocity.

The only powders I've used, so far, are AA #7 and Ramshot Enforcer; the former worked great, the latter didn't get near the velocities expected based on experience with it in 10mm loads.
 
RickB said:
.45 Super does not require a supported-chamber barrel.
I got 230 grain bullets up to 1175 avg, 1189 peak, out of a 6" 1911, with zero pressure signs and 6'-8' ejection.
My loads were below some published data which gets similar velocities from 5".

.451 or .452, no matter.
I was using plated bullets.

I also did some weighing of water capacity, and found no evidence that Starline Super brass is thicker than .45 ACP; it might be thicker than SOME .45 ACP brass, but it holds no less water than some .45 ACP and +P brass.

I did outrun an 8rd 1911 mag as I got close to the hottest load, but that shouldn't have been a surprise, as 8rd mags often have weaker springs to help accommodate the extra round.
My "Super Mag", no patent pending, is an 8rd mag with a 10rd mag spring, resulting in a 7-rounder that can keep up with the increased slide velocity.

The only powders I've used, so far, are AA #7 and Ramshot Enforcer; the former worked great, the latter didn't get near the velocities expected based on experience with it in 10mm loads.
Click to expand...
RickB you got good results with AA#7?, because that's what i was going to use for 45 Super, i plan on setting up my SR1911 CMD for 45 Super.
 
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I've got tons of .45 Super data, but yeah you can use either .451 or .452. I've loaded anything from 185gr to 300gr hard cast, much in the 750, 850 and some even in the 1000 ft-lb range.
 
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