.45 Colt Loads/Ammunition

D

dallas.moore

Inactive
Sorry guys, but I have a dumb question. I just received a Chaparral 1866 carbine in .45 Colt. The owners manual specifically says that “black powder (or pyrodex)” ammunition must be used. I picked up a box of Winchester .45 Cowboy Loads for my EAA Bounty Hunter. I also bought some reloads from a fella a couple of weeks ago at a gun show. The reloads look identical to the Winchester. My question revolves about the “black power” only. Are these safe to use in this rifle? Judging from the lack of smoke, when firing the BH, these appear to be loaded with smokeless powder. Someone please educate me. I’m much more familiar with my ARs and AKs.
 
Maj Moore, If the gun is labeled Black Powder only, then you must not shoot smokeless powder in it. To do so will void the warrantee and endanger the shooter and anyone around him. You may use Black Powder (Goex, Swiss etc) or a black powder substitute like 777, or Pyrodex. I shoot .45 Colt in my CAS guns. I load my own and fill the case with BP, scrape off the excess, and seat the bullet (compressed load). Doing this will guarantee that you never will blow up the gun. If you don't reload, then this is a great excuse to start. I think that there are BP cartridges out there, but they are scarce and expensive.

The loads made for cowboy Action Shooting are light loads of smokeless powder but a BP gun is NOT safe shooting smokeless. I know that some do it, but some men have sex with other men too. I wouldn't copy them either.

Use BP and have fun with it, It is a gas, and the BOOM and cloud of smoke will have others on the range asking,"what the hell was THAT?"

Capt. W Gilmore USA (ret) 2nd recon Squadron 9th Cavalry
P.S. buying reloads is not a very good idea, unless you personally know the reloader and are sure of what is in them. I never buy reloads, and I never sell them.
 
I don't see any restrictions like that on their web site. They do talk about how they don't use "soft" steel in any of their guns. I would be really p***** if I bought a gun and it said not to use the cartridge it was labeled with (they sell that same gun chambered in .357 Magnum, I wonder if that one also says "black powder only")

Black powder is fun to shoot tho', just reload them yourself like MacGille said.
 
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The rifle is not labeled black powder. It's labeled .45 Colt. It was only in the owners manual that it talked about black powder.
 
Assuming you are not misreading the owners manual, the manual basically says the gun is defective.

You're going to have to make up your own mind what to do, but I tend to trust the stampings on the gun barrel a lot more than the owners manual.
 
Major, I would write to the company and ask them. It seems like there is a discrepancy between the gun stamping and the owners manual. I would be quite upset if I bought this gun and it did not have an owners manual. I usually go by what the barrel says. I would have been firing my .45 colt reloads from it. I do not yet reload black powder.

I am glad you asked this question, because I am planning on getting a rifle like that. I am also glad that other people know the answer, thanks guys.

G.W. Buck, MSgt, USAF (Retired)
Cop, Cook and Chief Bottle washer :p
 
All this talk about reloading has reminded me I've got a brand new can of trail boss I bought to try out, I've been loading 45 colts with 35 grains of pyrodex with 250 grain lead bullets for my NMA with the R&D cylinder. I droped down to some new 200 grain with smokeless lube, The manual I have lists a starting load of 5.5 grains and a max of 6.5 grains with a 200 grain bullet.that Trail Boss powder is really light fluffy stuff so much so they can only fit 9 oz. in a 1 pound can, Just wanted to try something that did'nt require such a fast clean up and would let me shoot a bit longer between cleanings.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3482690&postcount=24
Click to expand...

There's a lot of .45 Colt reloading data listed under pistol cartridge at the Hodgdon Reloading Data Center. Their data distinguishes between .45 Colt and .45 Colt for "Ruger, Freedom Arms & TC Only". If the Chaperral warnings are anything like the maximum loads listed in the Italian muzzle loader owner's manuals, then the max. loads are often understated as if written only for the benefit of lawyers and to avoid any corporate liabilty.

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html
 
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Capt. Gilmore

I once loaded some .45 Colt cartridges with black powder as you have described and fired them from a Ruger Blackhawk that I had at the time. The danged pistol got so hot after a dozen rounds that I put it away and never tried that again. The smoke and boom were awesome, though! The cylinder and barrel were so hot that I was afraid of a cook off if I were to reload. BTW the recoil was quite stout as well. 255 grain lead bullet and approx 40 grains of fff Goex. (If I remember correctly.) Do you have any idea as to why that happened as it did? Thanks in advance...Also, I served with A troop 2/9 Cav from '81-'83. Best Squadron in the 24th ID!
 
Thought I pass on what has happened since I originally asked the question above. Monday I talked with a gentleman from Charter Arms (the company that use to handle the Chaparrals until about 2 years ago). After telling him what the owners manual said, he basically told me he had no idea why the manual said that, and that as long as I stuck to cowboy loads I’d be fine. He agreed that is was a little contradictory to say that .45 colts had to be black powder, but the .357s and .44 mags would handle modern loads.

I also found out the gentleman I purchased it from had kept the same rifle, chambered in .357, for himself. He seemed to think the loads he was using were hotter than the .45 cowboy loads, and he was having no problems other than the rifle shooting low.

This morning was the moment of truth. After giving the barrel a good cleaning, I took it out with 10 rounds. For the first one, I held the rifle away from me and squeezed the trigger. The round discharged and the rifle remained intact. I loaded the remaining 9 and cycled the action and fired normal. Not only did the rifle fire without blowing up in my face, but it actually hit what I was aiming at about 25 yards away. There were two times I pulled the trigger only to hear a click. Each time I pulled back the hammer back with my thumb, and it fired on the second attempt. The last 5 to 6 rounds went off without a hitch. Not sure what’s up with the misfires, but since they only happened at the beginning, maybe that’s worked itself out.

I took it back in, cleaned the barrel, checked the bore, lubed it up, wiped it down, and put it away (next to my ARs and AKs, talk about a contrast). The brass receiver and butt plate, just like the originals, has a handsome, distinctive look, and the wood is gorgeous. Looks like I may have gotten a good deal; a brand new 1866 lever gun, for $434. All in all, not bad. Thanks for your indulgence.
 
Chaparral 1866/45 Colt update

I talked with Steve from Steve's Gun (1892 specialist). He came highly recommended to me by a CAS gentleman. This guy really knows his stuff. We got on the subject of the 1866 Chaparral. I'd like to pass on what I learned in case some other dumby (like me) asks the question again.

He says he actually preformed evaluations on this rifle for EMF (EMF declined to handle it). The Chaparral has a brass PLATED steal action (seems brass was too expensive to make it solid). He said "no problem with the .45 Colt". When I told him what the owners manual said, he just chuckled and said the "lawyers got involved". He went on to say, "yes, Chaparral did/does have some QC issues, but if I got one that fired and ejected, then I got a good rifle. I know I feel better about having the plated steal receiver (which is actually what I hoped was the case.
 
In these litigious times nobody is gonna produce a firearm that is not safe for factory ammunition loaded to SAAMI pressure standards.
 
Scout, Yes black powder heats up a gun very quickly. It won't damage it though and you can safley shoot BP in a modern gun. Remember that it is very corrosive and you must clean with soap and water then oil. I wouldn't worry about a cook off, before it got that hot you wouldn't want to be holding it. In CAS (cowboy action shooting) we would fire 10 rd pistol,10 rd rifle, 2 to 6 rd shotgun at every stage. 5 to 10 stages per match. since I had 2 .45 pistols and a .45 rifle, I would shoot between 100 and 200 .45s per match. Never had a problem. I ran a wet patch through the pistols between stages.

242R9 Scouts Out Hooahh:)
 
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